100:1 Mix

It's awesome that Opti has agreed to sponsor Willow Springs!
Opti 2 was first intoduced to me by the ultralight aircraft enthusiasts about 20 years ago. I have used it in all my small two stroke engines since then - chainsaws, weedeaters, even my old boat motor. I have not had a failure or a worn out engine in 20 YEARS! Other bonuses include NOT working in a cloud of 2stroke oil, Never fouling a plug and no oily blow out the exhausts.
My latest bike engine has been broken in using Opti 2 and it continues to be the fastest bike in my stable. I gave the engine very little quarter while breaking it in, prefering to ride it as hard as I dare.
My thoughts at the time I first heard about Opti2 were, " If its good enough to fly in a single cylinder aircraft engine, its the best I can get for my engines."
I'm suspicious of any other oil...

Just darn good stuff.........I'll never run anything else in any of my 2 smokers......

I will not warranty any motor using any mix less than 40:1 no matter what oil is used. Period. I have had Customers use Opti II at 100:1 and their egnines have seized !! I have other Customers that have run Opti II for months with no problems. I do not understand it. I do not want to understand it. And those of you that do this must understand this. You do it at your own risk. I will not warranty any motor running less than 40:1. I do not understand why anyone wants to run 100:1.. It makes no sense to me at all !! But you guys do what you want. I do not know of any oil manufacturer that recommends doing this. Except for Opti II. You can contact Honda, Yamaha, KAwasaki, KTM, ATK, ROTAX, and ask them what they recommend.. None.. I mean none of them will tell you anything but 32:1 mix. Before you go less that this, you really need to contact the manufature and not the oil maker. This is a fun thread and it is funny to listen to what all is being said it makes me laugh and it is funny.. But.. For those that have new engines, check with the manufacture or seller of your engine before you ever decide to mix less than 40:1.. Enjoy the ride..

thatsdax said:

I do not know of any oil manufacturer that recommends doing this. Except for Opti II.

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what about amsoil saber

LS614 said:

what about amsoil saber

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Amsoil does recommend 100:1 for some engines. 50:1 for these.

But Amsoil is the original 100:1 oil. And I have been dealing with 2 stroke oils for nearly 40 years and also find the comments in this thread pretty classic.

I doubt in many, many ways - if we were to accurately measure the power output of an HT engine the most power won't be from any oil at 100:1.

Seems like this thread is just beating a dead horse.

These engines seize because of mechanical failure caused by poor quality or fit of parts not because of the oil mix 90+% of the time.......if it was the70:1 - 100:1 Opti 2 mix that was the problem then ALL of them would fail and not just one here and there...........

I'd bet there has been a higher % of these engines fail running 16:1 25:1 32:1 40:1 than there have running Opti 2 or Amsoil Sabre I'll bet just about anything on that.....

I'm not gonna fuss with anyone on this point but it is clear that some are scared of what they dont understand or know and that is fine, but to bash something that 1000's of people and 1000's of engines have proven to be great and even much better, and reliable is just crazy in my opinion, Opti 2 & Amsoil have been around for a long time, and they are very well known their ability to perform and protect engines very well at the 70:1 - 100:1 ratio.

So I say Nunyabidness said it best here.......this is just beating a dead horse and if I were gonna be concerned about Warrantee issues it would be with the engines that are running that cheap Dollar Store Brand or Wally World 2stroke oil and the like at any ratio.......

Just my $.02 nothing more...nothing less...

Peace

break it down, Hammer Time...

thatsdax said:

I will not warranty any motor using any mix less than 40:1 no matter what oil is used. Period.

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i guess i'll never buy an engine from you, and neither will hundreds of satisfied opti-2 users.

thatsdax said:

I have had Customers use Opti II at 100:1 and their egnines have seized !!

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what kind of proof do you have? did you do chemical analysis, as well as analyzing every part to pinpoint where the failure occurred, then trace that failure back to opti 2 as the unrefuteable cause behind the failure? if so, can you provide the technical data?

also, where are these people? i would assume they know of this forum and would gladly spend a few moments on this thread with their testimonials to make sure this didn't happen to anyone else, or at least provide some insight as to why opti 2 caused their motors to seize.

thatsdax said:

I do not understand why anyone wants to run 100:1.. It makes no sense to me at all !!

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the reasons have been stated many times, but to recap, no smell, no smoke, no oily residue leaking out of the air filters. and everyone agrees that they've had a notable increase in performance, smoothness, and rideability, as well as decreased break-in times.

thatsdax said:

I do not know of any oil manufacturer that recommends doing this. Except for Opti II.

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opti 2 is formulated to run at 100:1. no other oil (except amsoil) recommends doing it, because their oils aren't formulated for it.

thatsdax said:

You can contact Honda, Yamaha, KAwasaki, KTM, ATK, ROTAX, and ask them what they recommend.. None.. I mean none of them will tell you anything but 32:1 mix. Before you go less that this, you really need to contact the manufature and not the oil maker.

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three letters will sum this up. "CYA."

thatsdax said:

This is a fun thread and it is funny to listen to what all is being said it makes me laugh and it is funny..

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this is probably the only thing i will ever agree with you on. i love this thread.

thatsdax said:

But.. For those that have new engines, check with the manufacture or seller of your engine before you ever decide to mix less than 40:1.. Enjoy the ride..

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the manufacturers of chinese two-strokes are notorious for being unreachable and full of bad directions. if they can't even provide us with intelligent instructions for installing a motor, i doubt they can give us any technical data. they still recommend using 30w motor oil at 15:1. i'm surprised they're not suggesting we burn coal in our motors.

I'm going to try it but not at 100:1.

There must be a reason they are selling those 1.8 oz pouches to mix a gallon.

I agree once you start runnig it nothing else matters. I have been running my new build like I stole it from day one other then the first test of the shift kit. Been a week now and keeps getting stronger.

I s'pose I outa mention that 50 & 100:1 oil mix ratios aren't limited to "exotic" synthetic brands like Opti & Amsoil nor discouraged by all manufacturers...

Since sometime in the 1980's, Yamaha Performance Marine started running 100:1 mixes in their smaller two stroke outboards (100hp & under) & 50:1 in the larger ones (up to 250hp)... this isn't owners or repair techs "experimenting" nor is it a "recent" development, it's just not common knowledge because they're often injected systems preset that way from the factory by Yamaha & if you mess w/those you will void your warranty lol

Even for the tiny (3-25hp) premix engines it states quite clearly in the owner's manual to use 100:1 - they do recommend their proprietary Yamalube brand, naturally.

For those "experienced" boat owners that choose to ignore the owner's manual and their technician's advice because it "doesn't make any sense" to them despite the fact Yamaha is one of the pickiest engine manufacturers regarding warranties - they make a product called Yamaha Ring Free Fuel Additive to clean all the gunky build up & carbon from their poor engines... it works quite well actually.

Other manufacturers run 50 & 100:1 injector setting too, I'm just most familiar with & have ready access to Yamaha - while they don't offer their owner & tech manuals freely online (they want you to pay for them for some reason heh), I'd be more than happy to take a pic or two if a google search isn't satisfactory...

...and if you think Yamaha is full of it & has been for over thirty years... well, I dunno what to tell ya

My engine blew VERY early on 40:1. I'd be quick to blame any failures on these things being cheap before I'd blame any gas/oil ratio with any brand. Or just other factors like environment like someone else mentioned. It all seems to be a very inexact science(the end user part of it) that just decides to blow up in your face every now and then.

But, I'm new to this. My new engine will get something other than Havoline is all I know. Just because my engine died while running it. Nothing personal.

Even for the tiny (3-25hp) premix engines it states quite clearly in the owner's manual to use 100:1 - they do recommend their proprietary Yamalube brand, naturally.

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I'd like to throw out the idea that a better machined/QC engine from a name like Yamaha or another big 'un could very well be(and always have been) built to tighter tolerances and so tolerate running with less protection. Good enough for me to try it though. Hopefully I don't toast another cylinder and piston.

sketchman said:

I'd like to throw out the idea that a better machined/QC engine from a name like Yamaha or another big 'un could very well be(and always have been) built to tighter tolerances and so tolerate running with less protection. Good enough for me to try it though. Hopefully I don't toast another cylinder and piston.

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Some would say that tighter tolerances would require more lubrication, but I believe that's splitting hairs as those tolerances become less "tight" in time but the ratio remains the same *shrug* It could also be argued that as outboards are water cooled using them (& Yamalube) as examples is inappropriate - I simply wanted to point out that 50/100:1 mixes aren't exotic by any stretch, that there are indeed major engine manufacturers that not only recommend, but insist on such.

To be clear though, I've not recommended running any ratio other than what the oil manufacturer recommends for their product with your application & to use a quality oil, what that oil & ratio may be is up to you - heck, I don't even run Opti lol, I use the Amsoil Saber flavor

TBH the only reasons I even bother with 100:1 is greatly reduced carbon deposits & the simply fact I hafta buy far less oil

Overall I'd hafta agree - from my observations on the forum, with direct experience with my engines as well as others - I can safely assert that the vast majority of engine failures are not oil ratio related, that the overwhelming majority stem from poor quality control, user inexperience or both.

I received a box of Opti-2 and Opti-4 oil today from Interlube International
to give out at the Willow Springs race on June 18th.



They are so confident about the Opti-4 oil that they offer to double your
engines warranty!
yes, there is Opti -2 oil in the box too as well as Opti-Mizer fuel stabilizer
with Valve Guard and some Interlube Foam Filter Oil

That is awesome I don' remember the last time I saw a product that doubled any warranty. I if I did it sure wasn't on an engine warranty other then like valvoline saying up garentees 300000miles but only if you prove every oil change was with that product and started doing that before a 100000mi on engine.

This post is not meant to offend anyone. Not sure why anyone would be offended by such a post.. This is Only a warning post. It is to help 2 stroke owners. Those that are new to the 2 stroke world can benefit from my experience. I have been around 2 stroke race bikes all my life. Well.. over 40 years of it. And.. I have yet to see a failure from anyone using too much 2 stroke oil mix. Never. There is little or no history or information on Opti 2 anywhere to be found. I think that this thread is actually the most info posted on Opti 2 oil in the history of the net. I do not object to Opti II oil. From what I can tell, it is a good Canada Oil. What I object to is the 100:1 mix ratio, which is what this thread or Title of this thread is all about. Opti 2 says you can do it. No engine manufacture in the world That I know of recommends it. Period !! IT makes no sense to do so. If you have having a problem with spooge, then your fuel mixture is too rich, not that you are using too much oil. For High reving motors that howl till the cows come home, you should not run leaner than 32:1, consider 20:1 if you run for miles and miles wide open as I do. If you have a slow reving motor like the Happy time, you can get away with 40:1 or maybe even 50:1. Look.. It is not hard to google Mix ratios for 2 stroke race bikes and you too will see from other racers what oils they use and the mix ratios they use and why. As for Opti II, I will now refer those that seize their engines using opti II running 100:1 to them and then see what they do. Please provide a contact phone number for them so they can start getting the calls.I have starting getting calls from Customers needing engines and parts that were using Opti II 100:1 and have seized their motors. Calls that I have never had before. I am only giving a warning about such mix ratios being so lean with oil. As a rule, Richer with oil is better !! . Again.. Use at your own, and their own risk. All I am asking for is a contact phone number for them so they can honor their warranty. I am sure when any motor is sent to them for warranty, they will say, NFF or no fault found on their part. But they will get the call, and I will not warranty any motor found using any mix ratio less than 40:1. Enjoy the ride.. Google IT !! Mixing Ratios used by 2 stroke race bikes !! I am not saying opti II or I or what ever is good or bad oil, I am simply stating that the mix Ratio of 100:1 is not recommended by any engine manufacture that I know of. Period! There is no reason for such a low oil content mix ratio. No reason for it at all. Mix no leaner than 40:1. Never !!! There is no reason for it. Do not do it !! I am done with this thread.. And you guys should not be recommending such low oil mix ratios. There is no reason for it. It makes no sense to do it. If you Ignor the engine manufacture recommendations for mix ratios, you are on your own !! Know this.. You will get less power using less oil !! I am done with this thread...For those of you that want it easy.. Here is a decent link for info on 2 stroke mixing. http://motocrosshideout.com/2-stroke-dirt-bike-pre-mix-101/ .. You can find many others.. Look at the positive side of Mixing 100:1. The money you save on oil will allow you to buy the kleenex you will need when crying over your seized 2 stroke motor. After Talking with Paul at Opti oils, He has informed me that there is no warranty for the Opti2 oil. He said there are just too many varibles for 2 strokes. He also told me that Opti2 has been marketed for Chain saws and weed eaters , not for race bikes but said it should be no problem. He also told me that mixing 32:1 using Opti2 is not a problem and it might cause some excessive carbon build up after time. He also told me that Opti2 is a blend of both natural and sythentic oil. He also told me he knows of those that run Opti2 in their race bikes with no problems. Even so. After all this.. I still say.. Mix 40:1 or more. When in doubt salute !! He told me he has been selling Opti2 for over 30 years and it does sound like good stuff. If I ever use it, I would mix 32:1 to be safe.. So I can enjoy my ride..

for the last time, opti 2 is formulated, designed, and recommended to be run at 100:1 by the manufacturer. that's why we run it at 100:1.

that's the last time i'm going to respond to your posts here, mostly because i have no idea what all that incoherent nonsensical rambling above means.

Oil technology has come a very long way. In the past when there wasn't really 2-stroke oil, and it was just 30w oil mixed with gas. You had to run 16:1 because it wasn't very efficient.
But that there's specially formulated oil designed to run 100:1, why not run it?!
If it's designed to work, no reason it won't. As long as your carb is tuned right.

On the topic of tuning your carb, running less oil puts more importance on having the bike tuned properly. When running 30:1 if the a/f ratio is too lean, there's enough excessive oil to keep from seizing up the engine.
But when running 100:1, if you're running too lean an a/f ratio the motor will not get sufficient lubrication and seize up.

IMO, people seizing engines running this oil are doing something else wrong. It's not the oil.

When I get my new motor I'm going to start with a non-synthetic oil to break in the rings. And I'll be running a little oil rich so I can get the carb tuned properly. Then I'll reduce the oil, and keep fine tuning the carb for the new oil mixture. Starting a new build at 100:1 is probably a bad idea, just because they need to be tuned a bit to work. If you're running lean out of the box, that's not good with 100:1!!

BiMoPed said:

They are so confident about the Opti-4 oil that they offer to double your
engines warranty!

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Can I get that in writing with the agreement to buy my blown motor if it does?

Oh, and barelyawake. I didn't mean a tighter fit. I meant less tolerance for inconsistencies in fit and finish. Less jaggies to rub together, less things out of round, etc. Just better built. For instance, I watched a video where this guy purposely destroyed a weed whacker engine with straight gas. It ran WOT for well over 2 minutes IIRC before it seized, and that was sitting still so no air flowing over it like these engines get. I wonder how long a China would last doing that.