Performance stator coil and rotor/magneto????

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rogergendron1

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Sep 18, 2013
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I know there are pleanty of performance cdi boxes and coils available, but why is no one offering a better wound stator coil and a higher performance rotor say like one made from billet aluminum with a neo magnet in it to make more precise voltage and better spark. Or even a secondary coil to powet 12 v electronics
 

rogergendron1

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Sep 18, 2013
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I keep thinking a billet rotor with a powerful neodymium magnet keyed for proper timing and a tightly wound coil and an auxiliary coil for lighting would make a difference under high compression.
Or mabey this little motor just doesnt need that mutch spark idk
 

KCvale

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2010
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I know there are pleanty of performance cdi boxes and coils available, but why is no one offering a better wound stator coil and a higher performance rotor say like one made from billet aluminum with a neo magnet in it to make more precise voltage and better spark.
For what purpose?
More voltage to the spark plug than it needs does nothing but wear it, the CDI controls that anyway.
It will also suck more power away from you engine with the magnetic force from it unused or not.

You can just put in an NGK 5944 (BRP7HIX) Iridium spark plug for $10 and not only have all the useful spark you need, it's a bit longer to increase compression a bit as wheel.

Or even a secondary coil to powet 12 v electronics
Sure, you can add a second set of coils for power generation, but what you need to understand is electric power generation requires a power source to generate it, that being your engine, and that causes a loss of usable power to your wheels as it is being redirect to power generation at cost of what power what have been turning you wheel.

Bottom line is do you want all the power you can get to turning the wheels, or pay gas prices and performance loss to generate electricity from the engine as well?

You can devise all the schemes for power transfer you want, and yes a more efficient loss of source power helps, but regardless there will be a loss because nothing comes out of the blue with anything in conversion.
 

rogergendron1

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The only power loss to the motor from a second coil would be that of the drag of the magnetic field produces , and would be negligible at higher rpms to the tune of less than a tenth of hp .
Is a tenth of hp worth a 12 v charging syst for battery powered headlights / tail lights. ??? Yes for me.

And i believe anything can be made better. !!!

Take for instance the stock magneto rotor , it is sheets of stamped cheap china steel spot welded together with a timing slot roughly cut into it with no precision at all and timing varies all over from rotor to rotor because of it. I believe this can be made better and by doing so increase performance and reliability.

First of it could be made of stronger and lighter 7075 t6 aluminum instead if cheap as possible stamped steel, then it could have a neodymium magnet instead of just a cheaply magnitized section ,then if it had a precise cut slot for the key for optimum timing , the spark intensity and power would increase leading to better fuel economy and power.
Also i would like to see a better wound coil with a higher out put capabilities to go with it, this with a modified dirtbike ignition coil setup would be on par with quality to a real dirt bike or performance mo ped.
 

FFV8

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Oct 29, 2013
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Spring Valley NV
The only power loss to the motor from a second coil would be that of the drag of the magnetic field produces , and would be negligible at higher rpms to the tune of less than a tenth of hp .
Is a tenth of hp worth a 12 v charging syst for battery powered headlights / tail lights. ??? Yes for me.

And i believe anything can be made better. !!!

Take for instance the stock magneto rotor , it is sheets of stamped cheap china steel spot welded together with a timing slot roughly cut into it with no precision at all and timing varies all over from rotor to rotor because of it. I believe this can be made better and by doing so increase performance and reliability.

First of it could be made of stronger and lighter 7075 t6 aluminum instead if cheap as possible stamped steel, then it could have a neodymium magnet instead of just a cheaply magnitized section ,then if it had a precise cut slot for the key for optimum timing , the spark intensity and power would increase leading to better fuel economy and power.
Also i would like to see a better wound coil with a higher out put capabilities to go with it, this with a modified dirtbike ignition coil setup would be on par with quality to a real dirt bike or performance mo ped.
And how much would you be willing to pay for such a cleverly designed precision machined device, produced from only the finest materials?

.
 

Venice Motor Bikes

Custom Builder / Dealer/Los Angeles
Mar 20, 2008
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I did some tests not too long ago on different aftermarket CDIs...
I also tested several magnetos from different companies to find the best one to use on the CDI tests.
I basically hooked up the magnetos to my testing rig, spun them with a high speed drill motor & tested the voltage coming out of each one.

Here's a link to my tests... http://motorbicycling.com/showthread.php?t=58455


These CDIs are designed to work with a certain 'low' voltage from the magneto... I'm sure running too many volts into one might easily cook it.


If you read my thread, you'll see that I was able to get the most powerful spark of all the units tested using stock Chinese kit parts! ;) (it's just luck of the draw). :/
 
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KCvale

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2010
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Phoenix,AZ
Hey, power on (pun intended) Roger ;-}
The only power loss to the motor from a second coil would be that of the drag of the magnetic field produces , and would be negligible at higher rpms to the tune of less than a tenth of hp .
The drag produced is directly relational to the watts you draw.

Here is a simple test you can do with a typical household 50W incandescent light bulb using the engines secondary white coil wire.

With the engine idling hook up the white wire to it.
The engine dies.
Now with light still hooked up start it and adjust the idle higher until it will idle with the light on.

Then disconnect the light and see how high it idles and that is with only a 50W draw.

Take for instance the stock magneto rotor , it is sheets of stamped cheap china steel spot welded together with a timing slot roughly cut into it with no precision at all and timing varies all over from rotor to rotor because of it.
Wow, we must use different engine kit vendors.
I have a rotor magnet from a Skyhawk stuck to my metal filing cabinet next to my desk for testing if a bike is steel or not.

It has ~16 plates of steel with 6 rivets holding them together and precision machined including the key slot.
Heck, you use something spot welded?
I can't see how that would even be possible so maybe you just saw it wrong is all.
First of it could be made of stronger and lighter 7075 t6 aluminum instead if cheap as possible stamped steel, then it could have a neodymium magnet instead of just a cheaply magnitized section.
That would be some trick, making a magnet out of a non magnet metal.
The entire rotor is one big magnet with N and S poles.

Here is a Skyhawk brief on the whole system and how it works.
http://grubeeinc.com/Magneto Mystery.html

So what is your plan for somehow putting a neodymium magnet in your aluminum magnet?

Sorry, I just can't wrap my head around that.

then if it had a precise cut slot for the key for optimum timing , the spark intensity and power would increase leading to better fuel economy and power.
I can't wrap my head around that either.
If you have a spark a plug that fully ignites the fuel how the heck can a your improvement increase the horsepower?

That NGK spark plug I mentioned above actually does increase compression ratio as it longer.

How does it magically increase HP by somehow increasing compression ratio or increasing cylinder size too?
Again sorry, but I just can't seem to follow your logic.

Also i would like to see a better wound coil with a higher out put capabilities to go with it, this with a modified dirtbike ignition coil setup would be on par with quality to a real dirt bike or performance mo ped.
Again I just don't follow your reasoning..
Your examples are for much higher compression engines than your typical 66cc and may need a bit more power for a bigger spark and thus different spark plugs.

And how much would you be willing to pay for such a cleverly designed precision machined device, produced from only the finest materials?
Considering gasbike now has a bolt in secondary magneto for $25
http://www.gasbike.net/collections/all-bike-motor-parts/products/12v-generator
I have not tried it and it may be junk as usual, it will still suffer from the above power loss symptoms I mentioned earlier.

The stock magnets are $5, $10 for a CDI and $10 for a magneto.
$25 for the whole ignition system, $35 with an NGK plug which actually does a performance boost by increasing compression.

To continue would have to be for personal use as you can't compete against that for a system that already works great.

I did some tests not too long ago on different aftermarket CDIs...

These CDIs are designed to work with a certain 'low' voltage from the magneto... I'm sure running too many volts into one might easily cook it.

If you read my thread, you'll see that I was able to get the most powerful spark of all the units tested using stock Chinese kit parts!
And there ya have it Roger.
Improve away ;-}
 
Sep 4, 2012
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America's Hi-five
Super rats magnet is aluminum with a magnet in it. Might be a good place to start. It's clocked different since the magneto/cdi is in a different spot. Never seen it in person though
 

maniac57

Old, Fat, and still faster than you
Oct 8, 2011
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memphis Tn
Screaming Roo offers a rewound heavy duty coil/CDI combo.
I run one myself and it's a nice upgrade.
Got mine from Pedalchopper.com