Will This Fork Fit?

skitchfish · Feb 17, 2011

Hey Heaven,
I sure could be way wrong here but I nutted the steer tube down on the headset just like normal bicycle. I did this with the aluminum triple tree removed. I then used a thin nut over the triple tree. The triple tree rides over the headset nut, not the top of the bearing.

My application is surely different than yours because I am not installing it on a whizzer, but an older roadmaster. This appears to work smoothly and safely. If someone knows differently I would appreciate the input. In my case I thought the fork fit perfectly in length and diameter with 1 5/16 bearing cups. There is just enough threads coming through the aluminum triple tree to put a thin nut over it.

The old goose neck would fit down that whole also but I am choosing to use the handle bar clamps which brings me to asking you a favor. Would you please measure your new handle bar diameter at the grip and where they attach at the triple tree clamp. It looks like I could use 7/8" motorcycle bars but am not sure. I would like to know if the bars that are supposed to fit it are swelled and knurled where they attach to clamp. Thanks for all the help.

5-7HEAVEN · Feb 17, 2011

I'll get to the bike this weekend. I tried installing the cone-lower bearing nut below the triple tree plate, but the steering stem shaft was too short. The Ambassador plate does NOT sit well atop the cone-lower bearing nut either.

If there are any Ambassador bike owners around with their steering disassembled, we could sure use some first-hand info.

Methinks the Ambassador uses a different cone-lower bearing nut.

My old goose neck stem will NOT fit into the hole, unless I ream the hole. Then I'd still have to lengthen the threaded shaft.

5-7HEAVEN · Feb 20, 2011

Good news about the fork today.

After removing the Ambassador spacer, the disc brake fork assembly slipped into place. The only glitch is that the steerer shaft sits 1/4"too low. :-||

This is because the bottom of the triple tree sticks out 1/4". It's like a factory defect that's unnoticeable, unless you know where to look. It seems like the bottom cone was machined too high on the tree. The nut on the top will not thread on for the last 3/16". I removed the Whizzer's steerer tube's bottom bearing race. Maybe the local bike shop has a race that will be a better fit.

I also experimented to see if the Ambassador's fork tube would slip into the NE5's triple tree. If it does, then maybe NE5 owners can keep their triple tree, handlebar and bikestem and simply replace the fork tubes and wheel.

THE AMBASSADOR FORK TUBES DO NOT SLIP INTO THE NE5'S TRIPLE TREE. :-||

The Ambassador's fork tubes is maybe a couple millimeters thicker than the NE5 tubes. The tree just needs to be reamed to fit the Ambassador tubes. Then both tubes will bolt onto the NE5's chrome top plate.

If you remove the long spacers on both sides of the Ambassador's chrome wheel's axle, I'm presuming that this wheel w/disc brake will bolt on to the NE5's triple tree w/Ambassador fork tubes. However, that leads me to think that the axle needs the long spacer to properly align the disc and caliper.

Therefore, I am presuming that the Ambassador wheel will NOT fit the NE5's triple tree fork assembly w/Ambassador fork tubes installed. It might be too wide and off-centered away from the disc brake.

5-7HEAVEN · Feb 21, 2011

Well, I disassembled both triple trees and took them to the local bike shop for a professional opinion. I told him what was doing and asked the tech what he thought about the slight defect at the Ambassador fork's bottom cone. I showed him how it sits maybe 1/8" higher than the NE5's bottom cone.

No problem, he said.

I also mentioned that the top nut doesn't fully thread onto the steerer shaft.

No problem, he said.

So I went home and reassembled the fork. Everything's looking good. While tightening up the top nut...

it stripped its threads ANNND the steerer shaft's threads! :-||

This darn Ambassador fork's shaft is definitely TOO SHORT!

Methinks it needs to be lengthened 1/2".

Since I'm having the shaft lengthened, I might as well replace the top 4 1/2"
with 5" of the NE5's steerer shaft. The NE5's shaft's ID is a fraction of an inch wider. This way, I can stick the NE5's stem into the modified Ambassador's steerer shaft and re-use the NE5's original handlebar! Orrrr I can use the Ambassador's ape hanger handlebar too.

The NE5's steerer shaft was sawed off. It should be a no-brainer for the welder to extend the Ambassador's shaft.. I'll bring along the bearing race, so he know what the finished product. needs to fit through.

This Ambassador disc brake fork assembly SHOULD work, but it is DEFINITELY not a bolt-on!

scotto- · Feb 23, 2011

That sounds like a lot of mickey mouseing around.....you should be able to just replace the steerer tube, not have to weld onto it? Every suspension and even some non-suspension forks (like Tange straight-blade) have the steerer pressed in, therefore you can remove them and replace them as well. Unless it's a welded unicrown, it should be replaceable.

5-7HEAVEN · Feb 25, 2011

scotto- said:
That sounds like a lot of mickey mouseing around.....you should be able to just replace the steerer tube, not have to weld onto it? Every suspension and even some non-suspension forks (like Tange straight-blade) have the steerer pressed in, therefore you can remove them and replace them as well. Unless it's a welded unicrown, it should be replaceable.

Well, it's a welded unicrown. Now what?

And both steerer tubes were the same length.

Got any good suggestions? :-||

scotto- · Feb 27, 2011

5-7HEAVEN said:
Well, it's a welded unicrown. Now what?

And both steerer tubes were the same length.

Got any good suggestions?

Here is a suggestion....I did this yesterday and it turned out well. My buddy and I were taking a test ride the other night, it was the maiden voyage on his newly built '52 Schwinn cruiser with a Monark "type" fork. We were just starting down a big hill and the top (locking) nut popped off causing the forks to drop and force the tire into the bottom of the unicrown, stopping the bike abruptly.

Come to find out his steer tube was a bit to short with only a few threads barely holding at best. So yesterday we pulled the forks, removed the headset (just the top bearing race (cup)). Then I took my 4-1/2" angle grinder and cut 3/16" off of the top of the head tube. Put it all back together and flipped the top nut because the threads were cleaner (not stripped or tapered like the other side) and cranked it down. Good as new....plenty of thread contact now. And if you need more steer tube to work with, you could always cut the bottom end of the head tube as well, that is if you have enough head tube to work with, without disturbing the junction welds of course.

Good luck, let us know if you weld or chop to fit.....

5-7HEAVEN · Feb 28, 2011

Wow! That sounds like a safer, cheaper, stronger way to do it.

jbcruisin · Feb 28, 2011

Scotto is the man!! Scotto solved the problem!!

azbill · Feb 28, 2011

very ingenious solution !!!
I think we got a winner (^)

5-7HEAVEN · Mar 12, 2011

Still working on the Ambassador fork, but making progress.
I could've ground down the head tube 5/16". Then the Ambassador steerer tube would've slipped right in, but I'd have to use its ape hanger bars.
I really wanted to use the NE5's cruiser-type handlebar. HOWEVER, the new steerer tube's inside diameter was too small and would not accept the NE5's stem. A machine shop welded the NE5's tube onto the Ambassador triple tree. They also lengthened the shaft 1/2", so I don't have to grind down the head tube. I forgot to have the machinist rethread the tube. When I assembled the fork, the top adjusting cone ran out of threads and bottomed out. Returning to the machine shop, they wanted $180 to rethread the steerer tube. Heck no! After a few days of mulling over it, I realized the local bike shop could rethread it for me. They did the job and charged me $15.
Upon reassembly, the top nut bottomed out, so I'll need to either grind down the steerer tube, grind down the nut, use a different top nut or a spacer.
The right brake lever activates the front disc, which is located on the left side of the wheel.. It looks goofy crossing over the headlight. It's also an inch or two short and passes so close to the tire that the front fender won't fit. SOOO, I rigged the LEFT brake lever to activate the front disc, and the right lever works the rear brake. The brake cable fits right and looks better than crossing over the fork. The rear band brake wasn't working at all. Whomever assembled this bike ran the brake cable too close to the exhaust pipe. This melted the housing and froze the cable. After rerouting the cable and lubricating it, the rear brake is working again. Mental note was made to replace the cable soon.
The NE5's front fender surprisingly bolts onto the Ambassador fork tubes. Even the guide wire for the speedometer bolts up. However, since this new fork is wider, spacers and longer bolts will be needed for the fender's thick center braces. The caliper's bracket also needs slight grinding to clear the left rear fender brace.
This Ambassador fork needs quite a bit of work to install IFFF you want to use the NE5 handlebar and fender. You could grind the head tube, use the ape hanger bars and not install the front fender. The brake cable definitely needs to be moved to the left side, though.
I need to make simple brackets to attach the NE5's front turn signal assembly to the Ambassador fork's top plate, where its handlebar would have gone.
The Ambassador' fork's bump stop on the triple three isn't stopping the handlebar from hitting the fuel tank. A simple thick rubber donut or a short piece of fuel hose slipped onto the bump stop should fix that.

Almost done. dance1

skitchfish · Mar 12, 2011

Heaven,
Thanks you so much for updating, I'm using you and your thread as a guinea pig, hope you don't mind! I really do appreciate the info and hope to see photos of the end result. Once again, thank you for the log of your trials and tribulations.
skitch

5-7HEAVEN · Mar 12, 2011

Thanks, skitchfish. Will you be using ape hanger or cruiser-type handlebars? If you do the conversion, please take pictures and document your project for all of us. As you can guess, I am photo-illiterate. My pics will only be the final results when my friend Hawaii Ed sees my bike.

The local bike shop supplied me with 2mm and 5mm spacers, and a tall top nut for a couple dollars.

FWIW, total cost of the project without machinist work was $295.00.

Almost done.

Hmmm, does anyone know if the Ambassador's electric starter will work on the NE5 Whizzer?

Maybe I'll go find out. dance1

Quenton Guenther · Mar 13, 2011

Hi 5-7 Heaven,

The Ambassador motor is a modified NE motor. A section on the rear of the motor was milled and tapped to mount the starter bracket. You will also need to purchase the entire starter drive system to attach to the flywheel.

Now for the problems to expect.......The Ambassador motor has a much larger charging system to charge the much larger battery, however it does a really poor job. About 75% of the time I must push start my Ambassador due to a poorly charged battery. Guess what.........the NE motor has a much smaller charging system, and wouldn't even be close to charging the larger battery needed for the starter.

Next issue would be where to locate the starter as the NE frame doesn't have ANY room at the rear of the motor.

It should also be known, the starter draws WAY TOO MUCH power, and is the reason the system is a mess. The starter drive and starter are either parts from a Honda or similar copies [for a much larger motor, battery and charging system].

Have fun,

5-7HEAVEN · Mar 13, 2011

Wow! Quenton, you've saved a bunch of us a LOT of time, energy and $$.
From what you've shared, it's not worth the effort.

Thank you.

5-7HEAVEN · Mar 14, 2011

Finished!

I decided to eliminate the front fender for safety purposes. The new front rim is a little wider than stock, allowing the tire to bulge slightly more. Fender clearance is really tight. I'd rather have muddy water in my face than do an "end over" and kiss the road.

The original NE5 cruiser handlebar fits great, and the taller nut and spacer sits flush with the steerer tube. I temporarily sandwiched the turn signal metal bracket between the ape hanger's mounting bracket, then pivoted both lamps to face forward. When the Ambassador L-brackets for the turn signals arrive, I'll put them on. Too bad the NE5's front Whizzer plate is too narrow and won't bolt on.

The Whizzer engine needs some work. When that's done, I'll ride over to Hawaii Ed's house and take some pics.

After rolling the bike around, I can tell that this Ambassador front disc brake works VERY well. dance1

Quenton Guenther · Mar 14, 2011

Just a word of caution,

Do not trust the original tires from Tiawan. I can tell you, when they lose air it is like riding a "wet noodle on ice". Always check the pressure before each ride, and understand the sidewalls are like tissue paper. Every NE-r and Ambassador I have worked on, had tire issues. If the tires are run under-inflated [by only a few pounds]the side walls split, and failure is close by.

I had the pleasure to ride with a defective rear tire [not to bad], and a problematic front tire [not any fun at all]. Many are installing the 2.125 tires [which the rims are anyway], and report a much better ride.

Just be very mindful of the pressure.

Have fun,

5-7HEAVEN · Mar 15, 2011

Thanks again. I'll change the tires.

5-7HEAVEN · Mar 22, 2011

Fork Oil?

Quenton, do you or anyone else know what kind and how much oil that the Ambassadoe fork holds? I spilled quite a bit while fitting it onto my bike. :-||

Quenton Guenther · Mar 23, 2011

Hi,

The stock Whizzer forks use 6 ounces. I don't know the amount needed for the Ambassador/Ne-r forks.

I would suggest removing the top bolts from each tube, and press down on the forks [very slowly] and monitor the level to make sure they both have equal amounts of fluid. If one has less fluid than the other, fill to equal levels using Hydr. jack oil.

You can control the "stiffness" by adding or subtracting fluid from the tubes, but always make sure the level is equal in each tube.

Have fun,

Will This Fork Fit?

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