Hercules Trike rebuild

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Intrepid Wheelwoman

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Something I found with the Sturmey Archer coaster hubs from the 1960's is that they have a plastic oiling bung and when this is lost or falls out the hub gets full of water and grit which doesn't do its inner workings any good at all. When I was overhauling a coaster hub for my Hercules the only spare hub I found that was any good inside was one that still had its bung in place. All the rest were filled with a brown gritty paste and were completely worn out.

Truth be told I much prefer the earlier SA hubs that have a proper steel flip top oiler, but they are getting harder to find now.


This is wot I'm using on the Hercules.


They don't need the production of a small oil producing country diverted through them, - just a few drops of oil every week or so if the bike is being ridden most days. I much prefer the oiler hubs that are fitted to my older English bikes because they roll much more freely than greased hubs. They fell out of favour of course because they meant you actually had to pay some attention to bike maintenance and the other thing was they tended to be a little messy, but nothing a wipe over with a rag couldn't keep under control.
 

Intrepid Wheelwoman

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I've been making a start on a proper tray for my Hercules. For far too long I'd been using lash-up methods of carrying bulky cargo and it's about time I did something about it. As it's highly likely that I'm going to lengthen my trike's wheelbase at some stage I'm going to make the supports so they bolt together so it's easier to make adjustments later.

Most of the steel I'm using came from the local council recycling centre and was originally a part of some kind of crate for tractor parts. There are a lot of advantages in living in a rural area. :)
The tray base is made from 10mm five ply which should cope with anything I'm likely to load my trike up with. After thinking it through I decided that I would make the tray narrow enough to fit between the rear wheels as it's mostly going to be used around town and I don't want my trike to be too much of an obstruction on some of the more narrow streets. A speedster it's not as it's made to haul stuff not whizz about.
 

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Intrepid Wheelwoman

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No housework today - Yay! So I was able to go outside and play :D

There's been something I've been wanting to try with my Hercules trike for a long time now, but the idea was put on the back burner because I didn't have a brazing torch and I don't like using my lightning machine (MIG) at the best of times.
The other factor that prodded me into action was that I really do need to stick with riding trikes as on those days when I'm not so well I don't half wobble about sometimes on my dear old Hercules bicycle. My faux Rudge project has been at a standstill for a while and would need to be revised anyway because I'm getting so I don't trust myself on a solo bike. So wot I did was I nicked its engine......



I had the back half of a ladies 10 speed lying about so with a little more hacksaw work I cut it down further so it would fit on the right hand rear axle of my tricycle and the engine would fit what was left of the frame as well.
I know this might seem an odd way to mount an engine on a tricycle, but there are several advantages. (1) The engine is nicely out in the breeze for cooling purposes. (2) Chain wheel and pedal clearance is no longer a problem. (3) It's dead easy to mount up the exhaust system. (4) The engine is right where you can keep an eye on it in case it's naughty.







And in case you're wondering I will be adding in extra very necessary bracing pieces to make sure the engine does stay where it's supposed to.
 

Intrepid Wheelwoman

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By way of further information I am still going to install a proper carrying tray on my Hercules trike and the added on piece of bike frame will become part of the support arrangement for that.

The other thing that I'd like to do once I have the engine properly installed on my trike is to build a motor wheel using the same basic idea of a back half of a bike frame and a China Girl engine.
 

silverbear

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Anne,
What an interesting idea and one which leads to other interesting ideas. This should work nicely and if I understand correctly it leaves the rear wheels free to travel at different rates on corners, eliminating the need for a differential axle. Is that right? And yes, the rear portion of a standard bicycle could be used as a motor wheel like the Smith Motor Wheel.

For that matter an offset trike could be built from two standard bikes with no need to share an axle at all. One bike would remain much as it was and would be the one with a seat and pedals. The other would be just the rear section of a matching bike up to and including an inframe engine such as a China girl, but could be anything which fits. Cross braces weld the two frames together, so that the motor powered half is offset. The bottom bracket of that offset could carry a jack shaft so that power from the engine could be transferred to what was originally the pedal side of the bracket and carry a driving chain to an old standard 3 speed S.A. internally geared hub without the need for any modifications to it. A three speed motored trike results without the cost of a trike kit and all from salvaged stuff.

Also just realized that the offset frame section could retain a seat for a second rider and could retain all of the frame up to and including the head tube, simplifying cross bracing for a very sturdy rig, something like an open sociable. Woohoo!

Your idea leads to all sorts of possibilities, Anne... well done, Wellborn!
SB
 

cannonball2

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Oct 28, 2010
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I just love it! What out of the box thinking. That happens with me a lot when I have various parts/pieces laying a round. If one had the money even a twin is easily possible.

Think of the bodacious left turn you can make with a bit of throttle!

SB is right throw a BB into the frame part, flip the wheel add a second reduction and use a 3speed hub. Front chain line from the motor might be finicky, but is probably doable.
 

Intrepid Wheelwoman

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Ha ha, yes indeed CB, it's amazing what can happen when one starts trying out fitting junk together :) And Silverbear I must agree with you about the possibilities that exist with using the rear halves of standard bicycle frames and not bothering with conventional tricycle rear axles.
I would like to build a motorwheel for my 70 year old Hercules bicycle using this method with a Villiers engine to power it which would look very nice as well as being practical, but that will have to wait for later.

All my electric trikes have had divided drive with the left hand side rear wheel driven by the pedals and the right hand rear wheel under motor power. Yes there is a slight twitchiness under power, but that can be compensated for by sensible use of the pedals. This is where the Sachs automatic kick back hub I normally use very much comes into its own because it will shift up as you accelerate from a stop.
I suppose the divided drive arrangement just looks a whole lot more obvious now because there is an engine in plain sight on the right hand side.

For one heady moment I did consider adding a Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub as a countershaft transmission into the mix, but then I decided that it would be better to get everything working properly first and keep such experiments for later.
Two engines? - now that would be a sight :D However I shall be sensible and stick with using just the one. In practical terms though another engine on the left hand side would be a nuisance as that's the side that I mount and dismount from my tricycle and an engine being in the way could lead to unladylike bad language.

Like you CB I'm going to keep this slightly disguised China Girl completely stock as I'm not interested in speed and seeing how fast it will go. My trikes are workhorses and get used to haul stuff so reliability is what I want.
 

Intrepid Wheelwoman

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Anne:

The oil cup issue is easy to solve. Ditch the plastic & put a fresh oil cup in:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#oil-cups/=w3ywuq

Same goes for anyplace you would rather have a cup & a wick. Just drill the bottom bracket for a cup & put in a bit of wicking.

B
Oooooo nice :) What a useful link FFV8. You are so lucky having McMaster-Carr in the US as we don't really have anything like that here in New Zealand. I wonder if McMaster-Carr would ship an order to New Zealand? The only problem would be that the postage cost might be awful.

My older English bicycles have oil cups and they are sooooo good when it comes to giving my bikes a lube and service.
 

Intrepid Wheelwoman

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At the moment I'm deciding whether to to keep the attached frame piece as a 'bolt-on' or go all the way and braze it onto the trike axle. Caution would dictate keeping it as a 'bolt-on' until I'm completely certain everything is going to work as it should.

I shall report back after some further tinkering and creative staring.
 

FFV8

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Anne:

I get near weekly deliveries from McM. They do ship worldwide, but as you have pointed out the shipping might be expensive.

If you want a few cups, I think they will fit in a fat letter & go via mail...

B
 

Intrepid Wheelwoman

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Anne:

I get near weekly deliveries from McM. They do ship worldwide, but as you have pointed out the shipping might be expensive.

If you want a few cups, I think they will fit in a fat letter & go via mail...

B
Well that's good news :) It would just be the flip top oil cups I'd be wanting, though some of those glass bodied old fashioned machinery oilers are very tempting as I will be needing those for my Stirling engine project.
 

Intrepid Wheelwoman

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Well the votes are in and I'm going to set the motor attachment up as a bolt-on unit. It's a beautiful fine day here so I've been washing blankets and hanging them out in the sun so they will be nice and clean and fresh for Winter. Waiting for the washing machine to cycle has been perfect creative staring time and I've got my method of approach all figured out :)
Bolt-on is best because it means that the entire motorwheel unit can be removed and used on something else if I want to. In addition to that I would need to do some tricky metalwork at the wheel mounting end of things if I wanted to braze the frame permanently in place.

I also found an exercise machine in perfect working order in my scrap pile so now I have another dilemma; - do I try for a set of killer abs, - or do I cut it up for steel bits to use on my trikes?
 

Intrepid Wheelwoman

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So this is the plan. The seatpost is to be cut off at the red line and a new frame stay will be added where the green line is.
On the other side I will be doing something a little different with the frame stay as it will include a heat shield/skirt guard and a chain guard. I wouldn't mind modding the chain stays on that side as well to allow me to fit a belt drive later on should I want to.
 

Intrepid Wheelwoman

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Made a start nice and early this morning before the day became too hot to do anything except have nana naps. I was still working through washing blankets & etc and getting them out to dry, but with the laundry right next to the carport and my workshop I was able to get some work done in between washing cycles.

I salvaged some really nice old steel conduit from the council tip a while ago and I decided I would use it to make the new heavier chainstays. We don't use steel conduit anymore here in NZ because it's all gone plastic so the steel conduit must've come from renovations on a building from the 1930s.

With changes to my meds I'm doing a lot better and have more energy to do things which is why I'm able to get out into my workshop and do things again. It's really great to be hacksawing and filing away at metal and making something again out in my own little messy workshop :D
By the way I think the guy who invented flapper discs deserves a medal because they didn't half make a good job of cleaning everything up and nice and quickly too.

The big acid test for today's workshop session was of course seeing how my new brazing torch would perform. I decided to try ordinary propane first as I wanted to see just what it could do even though I'll most probably be using MAPP gas more often than not. First though, - shock horror, - I couldn't find my new packet of flux coated brazing rods!
My daughter and I have been having a big clean up of our workspaces as we were able to use some of the car sale money to buy one of those big red tool boxes on castors with lots of drawers that I've always wanted. So Ok, it's a Chinese knock off and we got it half price at a warehouse clearance because it had a dent in it; - selling a 1970s Datsun doesn't make us millionares afterall. ;)
So finally we've been able gather up all the tools we own from where they've been scattered all over the house and workshop and put them in one place. Somehow during the great gathering up of tools I managed to misplace my new brazing rods. That's the only problem with tidying up, - you can never find anything afterwards :(

So after searching for twenty minutes I did eventually find them and got myself all sorted out with my Steampunk Girl cap on, my welding goggles and gloves & etc. The instructions for my new torch were cryptic to say the least and failed to explain how the safety lock on the trigger was supposed to be released, BUT we got there in the end and I got the thing lit. One thing I do really like about it is that it has an automatic lighting up system which means no more looking for gas strikers or matches in the middle of a job.

So how did it do? The fluxed brazing rods I'm using are made by the same manufacturer as supplies the gas canisters. I thought this would be a really good idea as the alloy used for the rods should definitely work with the the gas I was using.
I must say that after some ten years since I last tried to braze anything I didn't do too bad. With a little bit more practice I should be able to lay down nice even fillets like I could back when I was twenty something. The first thing I noticed though after having been spoiled by brazing with an oxy-acetylene torch in the past is that with propane patience is required as everything heats up more slowly. I was brazing a 1/16th inch thick stay tube to a 1/8th inch thick part of a cycle frame, so I knew I was pushing it. BUT not to worry because the workpiece eventually developed a nice luminous orange red spot that was able to be 'wetted' with my nice new brazing rod.

When I was younger and fluxed brazing rods had just become available I refused to have anything to do with that new fangled stuff. I could be a difficult little sod like that when I was younger (sigh). However to cut a long story short the new fluxed rods I'd purchased worked beautifully and I'd be more than happy to keep on buying them in the future.

Once the sun starts going down and the day cools off I'll go back and braze the other end of the chainstay. Then the next task will be making the combined stay and skirt guard mounting for the other side. :)
 

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Intrepid Wheelwoman

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Was tired yesterday, - I think I may have done too much, but it was fun though :) I spent the time in between sleeping doing more research to help along my projects. Another drive unit similar to the one for my trike is being devised, but this one will be setup as an independent motorwheel unit so it can be used on my other bikes & etc. First though I need to get my trike into running order as I will be needing it for adventuresome forays into the council steel recycling area at the local tip.
 

curtisfox

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Dido what SB said, getting back at it and doing your bike projects. Hope and pray that you stay stable and can keep at it................Curt
 

Intrepid Wheelwoman

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Dido what SB said, getting back at it and doing your bike projects. Hope and pray that you stay stable and can keep at it................Curt
Thanks Curt :)

I think I just need to be careful and pace myself a little better. My daughter just said to me tonight that she thought I might've been pushing it a bit too far with working on my trike, but then she could see that I was really happy and having a good time so she didn't say anything about it as she didn't want to ruin my fun. Lesson learned though and I'll need to be more sensible from now on.