currie motors

GoldenMotor.com

jeff96

New Member
Mar 29, 2010
28
0
0
Ontario
I'm looking for a motor battery set up to build a budget e-bike, but I don't want to cheap out too much and wind up with a bike I can't use.

I'm hoping to use the bike for quick trips into town (3km), and for commuting to some of my closer work locations (20 to 30 km). At that distance, I need a speed of ~30 km /hr, otherwise, I'd probably drive the car. I often have to drive further than that, so the bike won't be able to replace the car, even in the summer. I can plug in at work, so range for a one way trip is acceptable. It's relatively flat in this area, but there's no predicting headwinds. Of course I'm ready and willing to pedal assist, but I don't want to be sweaty and tired at the start of a shift.

A kit with lifepo4 batteries is out of my price range for now. It looks like I can get 24 aH sla batteries for around $60. Is 24 aH at 36 V a realistic capacity for this speed and range?

The currie motors seem to be much cheaper than anything else out there. I realize thats because they are brushed motors, but is the drop in efficiency noticable? The link here is what I had in mind. 36 Volt 500 Watt Motor, Controller, Throttle | Monster Scooter Parts I know currie has a bicycle kit that would be much easier to install, but I don't think the 24 V 450 watt kit would have enough oomph. A 500 W motor is the legal limit in Ontario, but I don't think anyone's going to check my bike to see if its motor is >500 or not.
 

deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
8,114
9
0
north carolina
I have run nothing but currie motors. I think 500 is minimum for what you want I run 600 but it is on a friction drive I built. thirty six v will increase the watts by half . 750 for a five hundred.

speed on my bike is about 20 mph max and range about ten miles on 17ah batteries. I run 36v sla at the moment pulled on a small trailer.
Welcome and good luck...
 

jeff96

New Member
Mar 29, 2010
28
0
0
Ontario
Not sure I understand; are you saying that applying 36V to a 24V-500W motor will cause it to draw 750W? I'd have thought that would burn out the motor quickly, but perhaps they're overbuilt?
 

deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
8,114
9
0
north carolina
It depends on who you talk to what the motor will stand. I have been running mine that way for about a year and it doesn't seem any the worse for wear. Be sure you get a 36v 800watt controller at least. I run a 24v controller but lots of them won't take 36volts. Mine does take 36 but I have also burned up a couple trying to over volt them.
 

zabac70

New Member
Mar 17, 2010
204
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54
Belgrade , Serbia
Amps burns motors not Volts (up to a point , but I don't want to bore everyone). Controllers are more dedicated (due to electronics, various components are rated for different voltages and currencies (Amps)). You can double the Volts (with right controller) and all you'll get is more speed with lees heat (less Amps) and bit more range.
24 Ah, 36 V batteries should do the job (for 30 km range one way , with some pedaling) , but bare in mind, it will be pretty heavy bike and kind of hard to pedal (if you run your pack flat out of juice).
In my opinion , motor is quite good , but whole kit is limited with controller (~13 Amps), so I recommend you to shop around for controllers with more capabilities (more Amps). E bay should be good source or Kelly controllers (if you need good support & warranty) or many Chinese manufacturers.
Controller, 36 volt, 30 amp, 1000 watt for example...
 

deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
8,114
9
0
north carolina
Tnc is a good source for controllers as well. i have been buying mine there lately. I don't know the model number of the one I use now but it is the 24v with the green wire. It will consistently run 36v. They also have the 36v 800 watt version of it one green wire which will not take over voltage. 48v will smoke it...

As my leaned friend said above you do not increase the amps when you increase the voltage but you do increase the watts since it is my less than learned understanding that volt x amps equal watts so if 24v x 20amp equals 480 watts then 36v at the same 20 amps equals 720 watts.which will indeed give you more speed but in my observations right or wrong more ump on the hills as well. over all a 36v power supply is superior to 24v in my opinion in about every way.

Also the pedaling of the bike is more important than you might think. I have had to push and pedal mine home once for letting the power run out. It was not fun. I had to do it once with the trailer gone, and it was better but since I did not have gears, it was still a pain. I had to push it home more than that for wiring gone bad. Throttles are my most often failed item. I have no idea why but the twist throttles are the worst. The thumb throttle has worked for months now but it is the least enjoyable to ride.
 
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professor

New Member
Oct 14, 2009
500
1
0
Buffalo ny area
Very interesting. My throttle goofed up five miles from home on the gas/electric. There isn't much inside a throttle- wires and a magnet, if the magnet gets out of position- no go.
These motors seem real forgiving. I was experimenting, putting 50 volts into a 250 watt motor (double it's rating) with no controller or battery. Seemed fine but just stayed around the neighborhood and didn't go far. (powered off an alternator and gas engine)
Went to a 450 watt 24v WITH 500w controller and 24 volts on the gas/elect. Gear ratio- 14 to one overall, gives top speed of 20 mph.
But, in pedaling the bike, the chains and sprockets/jackshaft suck up a lot of power, so on my pure (home made) E-bike, I have stripped off all that stuff and will go with belt and pulley drive. I think the power draw will be a lot less just to rotate everything, resulting in a lot more range.
I like the idea of the Curry motor and drive that I have seen,mounted with the little gearbox back on the rear axle, but the scream of those straight cut gears would drive me nuts. If that would not bother you, you mihgt look for one of those units.
 

grouchyolfart

New Member
May 31, 2008
267
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0
Wahiawa, Hawai'i
Hmm. I currently run a 450 watt 24volt Curry system and bumping it up to 36 volts for more power sounds good. Just gotta change out the throttle and controller, eh? My battery pack still has enough space for a third battery as well. Sure could use the extra boost. In riding up to our local egg farm, towing a kiddie trailer, I found I had to pedal all the way just to keep a good speed going. The gear whine attracted the attention of most of the retirees out for their morning walks. Got lots of smiles for it. .rd.

Btw, I'm a fan of the Curry systems and don't mind the gear whine at all. It's noticeable, but not overly loud. I have 2 bikes with this system and both have never given me any problems. I find the hub motors to be really sluggish from the git go. Maybe bumping that setup to a 36 volt system might help as well. zpt
 

deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
8,114
9
0
north carolina
I could be wrong nut I dont think the throttle matters so you could just use the same throttle even after you boost the controller. Heck if I was sure I would go 36v I would just put it on the bike and see if it burns the controller up. If you aren't going to use it what the heck.
 

zabac70

New Member
Mar 17, 2010
204
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54
Belgrade , Serbia
@grouchyolfart
deacon is right about the throttle . Just like gas pedal cable in a car , it doesn't matter which motor your car have (VW beetle's or Corvette's). Throttle usually work (simple ones - depending on the type) on 0 - 5 V, giving signal to controller to multiply that voltage to a motor.
"I find the hub motors to be really sluggish from the git go."
That depends on a motor(torque) , but also on a controller (how much Amps it allows) and voltage. Also, it is not the same if you put a bike hub motor on a 26" or 20" wheel. On smaller wheel you'll be able to use much more torque (sometime with burn out) - it's a principle of lever. Here's an examples : YouTube - Drill-Powered Bike , YouTube - Star trek episode " a je to " Grayborg run 2 ili ti ga Sivi Borg a ne kuzim zakaj je crni (latter with Crystalite 5306 hub motor).
I understand that you are a fan of Curry motors , but have you ever tried anything else? Since you aren't in pursue of the speed , torque is the name of the game; you can achieve that by proper gearing (between motor and wheel) or by putting more Amps trough the system (stronger controller).
I was never a fan of kits - those with reasonable prices are always lack of something in at least one component of the system (controller can take too low amperage , motor has not enough torque...) and expensive ones are usually too expensive (always can get much better deal if you buy components from different manufacturers , or combine that with E bay and so on...). However , if one doesn't know how to put things together or can't be bothered , he should go with kit (general remark - doesn't apply to anyone in particular, especially no one in here).
 
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deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
8,114
9
0
north carolina
I totally agree about kits.... There is right now a guy on ebay who bought a bunch of bikes with curry motors and rear wheels and is parting them out. I have given serious thought to buying one of the rear wheels and motors. The wheels are 20" but those are my favorite ones anyway. I could put a stronger controller and have a 36v chain drive for about fifty bucks or so I think. Maybe it was a hundred I'm not real sure anyway its cheaper than a kit. I have bought scooter parts from him before.

I really don't care for hub motors either but it is more just a bad experience with one, so I do not try to discourage others from buying them at all. They are the way to go, I you don't want to be bothered with maintenance of a system. I need to switch out a rear tire on my friction drive soon. I have other wheels so I will probably just switch the whole wheel, so that I can ride it again immediately. I will put a new tire on the wheel before I switch them. If I didn't have so many bike parts it could be a pain in the butt. Especially if I needed to go somewhere on short notice.

I may reinstall the hub motor, when I get this smaller battery pack built. With the lower weight it might do okay for a bike to go to the trail or to the mall on a wet road. The friction drive is 900 watts vs 350 watts so there is a lot of difference on a real ride.

The hub motor was my first try at serious ebikes. I had played with them before but not seriously. I bought it at 250 watts hoping that I would like pedal assist. I didn't, so I jumped it to 36v when the controller died after a few months. The small increase didn't help much so I went to the larger Curry motors and friction drive which is way cheaper when a component goes out. You can buy 36v brush controllers all day long for thirty bucks or less but try to get a brushless controller and you find out how much more a hub motor will cost you, over the long haul.

no matter what you get 500 watts is a good minimum size motor I think. Even if you want to pedal assist, the ump is there when you need it.
 
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grouchyolfart

New Member
May 31, 2008
267
0
0
Wahiawa, Hawai'i
@grouchyolfart
deacon is right about the throttle . Just like gas pedal cable in a car , it doesn't matter which motor your car have (VW beetle's or Corvette's). Throttle usually work (simple ones - depending on the type) on 0 - 5 V, giving signal to controller to multiply that voltage to a motor.
"I find the hub motors to be really sluggish from the git go."
That depends on a motor(torque) , but also on a controller (how much Amps it allows) and voltage. Also, it is not the same if you put a bike hub motor on a 26" or 20" wheel. On smaller wheel you'll be able to use much more torque (sometime with burn out) - it's a principle of lever. Here's an examples : YouTube - Drill-Powered Bike , YouTube - Star trek episode " a je to " Grayborg run 2 ili ti ga Sivi Borg a ne kuzim zakaj je crni (latter with Crystalite 5306 hub motor).
I understand that you are a fan of Curry motors , but have you ever tried anything else? Since you aren't in pursue of the speed , torque is the name of the game; you can achieve that by proper gearing (between motor and wheel) or by putting more Amps trough the system (stronger controller).
I was never a fan of kits - those with reasonable prices are always lack of something in at least on component of the system (controller can take too low amperage , motor has not enough torque...) and expensive ones are usually too expensive (always can get much better deal if you bye components from different manufacturers , or combine that with E bay and so on...). However , if one doesn't know how to put things together or can't be bothered , he should go with kit (general remark - doesn't apply to anyone in particular, especially no one in here).
My daughter's bike is set up with a hub motor kit I picked up for $50 on Craigs. It works and is actually just right for her, her being only 10 yrs. old. Slow and steady pickup and can reach a top speed between 15 and 20 mph with pedal assist. Enough for her, but not enough for me. :D

I agree about building from scratch, but for my purposes I needed to start with "kits". Especially since they used a rear wheel with a "wrong" side freewheel. Expensive to have one built, expensive to buy one online plus shipping. The big bonus was I paid way less for these than I would have, buying the same kits online. I figure these as a good place to start and learn. Up to this point, I can maintain my batteries properly, keep the rigs "tuned" and not blow anything up, partly in thanks to Deacon. Now that I have most of the basics down, it's time to start goofing around with these motors. First thing to do is to buy a few 36 or 48 volt controllers and maybe a bigger motor
or 2. :D
 

zabac70

New Member
Mar 17, 2010
204
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0
54
Belgrade , Serbia
I understand what are you saying (you , basically, developing a learning experience), but all things I've posted are for shortening that path (and to save you some money, possibly). I really don't get what is expensive and what isn't, by American standards , so my advice is to be taken with a grain of salt (I'm from Europe , but not from EU(yet) and very poor by anyone's standard ). Mainly, components for e bikes are considerably more expensive here. Work (done by experts or , pretty much anyone) is dirt cheap here , so we tend to buy less (or reconstruct things that are cheaper to be better) and work more (read: make something out of nothing).
Note on the brushless controllers ; I've recently learned that more people use (try to use) sensor-less controlers (e.g. infineon :8-Bit Microcontrollers - Infineon Technologies ) , which reduce maintenance on the bike. How? Brushless motors have hall effect sensors , which are sensitive and they brake often (usually , they die before anything else , in brushless motors). Sensorless controllers don't use hall sensors for determining position of the rotor - they use flow of the current trough phase (which-craft really, it's a bit complicated) and , since they are using micro controllers (pic something...), they are considerably more efficient , therefore more speed and range you can get from the same battery pack. Sensorless controllers cost about the same as their brothers with hall sensor reading.
 
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deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
8,114
9
0
north carolina
All this talk about hub motor got me to try mine again. I spent a whole day mounting it to a spare frame.... hooking it up and building all kinds of parts for the seat and pedal assembly, non motor things. Then it put it on the road, I got one block and decided to push it home. It was such a poor performance compared to the bikes I build, for a whole lot less money, that it just wasn't worth messing with.

Give me that big friction drive with the Currie motor any day. But please somebody let me find a decent battery system soon.
 
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jeff96

New Member
Mar 29, 2010
28
0
0
Ontario
Did some pricing on Currie motors, controllers, chargers and batteries on monsterscooterparts.com and atbatt.com.
What with cross border shipping, customs, duty, exchange rate etc. it looks like $500 to $600 bucks any way I slice it. I know that's a good deal compared to going out and buying a bike off the shelf, but considering the bike will save me maybe $150 a year in gas, the math isn't working out too well for me. If I drove my car at ebike speed, I'd save more than that. It sounds like alot of members have started out with a system that they've been able to add onto a bit at a time. I think I'll have to keep an eye out on craigslist for a system that I can upgrade. Anyone in Ontario want to sell ebike parts?
 

deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
8,114
9
0
north carolina
scooter sites usually are the most expensive. Try ebay a part at a time until you have your kit in hand. Then build your bike for fun. I ride mine because my wife threatens to call my doctor and the highway patrol if I drive a car, otherwise it would be a toy.
 

grouchyolfart

New Member
May 31, 2008
267
0
0
Wahiawa, Hawai'i
Did some pricing on Currie motors, controllers, chargers and batteries on monsterscooterparts.com and atbatt.com.
What with cross border shipping, customs, duty, exchange rate etc. it looks like $500 to $600 bucks any way I slice it. I know that's a good deal compared to going out and buying a bike off the shelf, but considering the bike will save me maybe $150 a year in gas, the math isn't working out too well for me. If I drove my car at ebike speed, I'd save more than that. It sounds like alot of members have started out with a system that they've been able to add onto a bit at a time. I think I'll have to keep an eye out on craigslist for a system that I can upgrade. Anyone in Ontario want to sell ebike parts?
Best price I found for a Curry kit was $279 at ElectricScooterParts.com - Scooters made with Our Parts

Yikes! Does all that customs stuff really add that much more? :eek:
I know how you feel, bruddah. Sometimes we feel like we live in a different
country as well, being so isolated and being at the mercy of the shipping
companies.
 

fasteddy

Well-Known Member
Feb 13, 2009
7,440
4,877
113
British Columbia Canada
Jeff96, have you looked up endless-sphere.com? They are all electric vehicles and they may have something listed for sale.
If you have a question they will guide you to the right spot.

Steve.