BEST OF ELECTRIC BICYCLES ? your input

tallcrown · Jun 23, 2011

Hello,
I was out and saw a Gas Motorized Bicycle. At that moment I said "Wow I need one of them". Then like everything I do all the research before I jump into anything. 2 stroke 4 stroke and more.
After reading all this chatter. I decided to go with electric. Why? Basicly because I do not want any problem with getting stopped and get a hard time on laws and interpretation of it, Tickets ?. Really I just want to go out and enjoy a trip. Not how fast I go, but rather for fun.

I Decided the way to is Electric. Now what? The market has a lot of options for electric. Built bike or build a bike? If it is a built bike. This really never gives the proper options.
I have seen a lot of of You Tube stuff. There are frame mount motors, Hub Motors of many brands. Amp sizes of motors seem to range from 200 ampto 3500 amp. Then Crystalyte Front Hub motors that are front wheel mount, and Rear wheel mounts. Direct Drive, Gear Drive. People have said that Direct Drive has more drag, Gear Drive has better freewheeling when motor is not in use. Brush Motors and Non Brush Motors. Battery Sizes. Solar Charging that is even on trailers. Electric Push Trailers and more.

The purpose of this Bike is for transportation. But not just to the 7-11. But a trip, 100 mile trip or farther. Pedal is most of trip, But support on hills

Electric system on a bike, a tandem or maybe a lightweight trailer. From your experience what is the best way to go?
My purpose of this Thread is to get a forum going to discuss the pros and cons. But please put a little support information on why it is a Pro or Con on specific styles/options of Electric Bicycles.
Thanks

motorbiker · Jun 23, 2011

This motor.

TNC Scooters (Scooter Sales and Service)

They make other motors like this at different voltages but I would go with the 36 volt, 450w version.

Lightweight and can turn a freewheel on the left side of the rear wheel, no motor drag when not using the motor.

Batteries, Headway.

Headway cell 38120S (10Ah) Energy Cells with Screw Terminals

Lightweight, good price, lots of amps, you can repair battery packs made with these batteries. Cells do go bad.

Testing cells info.

How do I test the cells in a battery to see if any have failed?

http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?PHPSESSID=f4e581167ed4563e7a2e1e94c05a861f&topic=2993.0

Turning this rear hub.

http://www.staton-inc.com/store/pro...ge_Hub_Left_and_right_hand_threads-859-0.html

The best I know of.

camlifter · Jun 23, 2011

a bike that you will mostly pedal will need a freewheeling drive. either a diy type or a rear wheel kit type. there are a lot of 1000w rear kits out there. i have a front hub kit from worldwideelectric bikes that i like a lot. but i only ride for around 15 miles or less at onr time with it. there is a slight drag from the front hub when it's not powered. hardlly enough to notice but might be enough to notice on a 100 mile ride.
the batterys are going to be the biggest factor. the more powerfull the better. most of the cost of an electric bike is in the batterys.

Wm Holden · Jun 23, 2011

motorbiker said:
This motor.

TNC Scooters (Scooter Sales and Service)

They make other motors like this at different voltages but I would go with the 36 volt, 450w version.

Lightweight and can turn a freewheel on the left side of the rear wheel, no motor drag when not using the motor.

Batteries, Headway.

Headway cell 38120S (10Ah) Energy Cells with Screw Terminals

Lightweight, good price, lots of amps, you can repair battery packs made with these batteries. Cells do go bad.

Testing cells info.

How do I test the cells in a battery to see if any have failed?

How to test battery BMS.

Turning this rear hub.

Rear 36 Hole 12 gage Hub Left and right hand threads: Staton Inc

The best I know of.

Awesome info!!!
I bookmarked every link!!

but for a simple elegant 1 hour install of electric..cheap..(sorta) I say front hub hall-less brushless wilderness. with a home built SLA battery pack.

the.hatter · Jun 23, 2011

I may be in a similar position as the OP, probably know less, so I'll be watching this thread closely.

I'm leaning towards electric as well, because it seems a better match with riders who still want to pedal than compared to gas. Problem for me is the price seems to be so much greater than gas kits.

I found this site, their rear hub geared motor looks perfect (except for the price tag):

E-Bike Kits and Conversions Store From AmpedBikes.com

Not trying to push their products, apologize if it's a rules violation for posting their link!

From what I've gathered, front hub kits can be dangerous. Strength of the forks is more critical, and if the motor locks up then you're probably going to have a nasty crash.

Experts please chime in!!

tallcrown · Jun 23, 2011

I have been researching all I can. There are the cheap 2 stroke motors and then there are the better 4 stroke motors. After all the talk of what is legal and what is not. I only worry about that pop pop pop of the exhaust. It will attract the wrong attention. I have seen so many of these gas bikes, But none are close to quiet.
back to electric;I like the option to put in my own battery. Upgrading if needed. I saw some videos of the Crystalyte Hub Motor. very impressive. There is a video on Youtube of a solar charger panel that can be put on a small trailer to charge your battery.

After watching some of these crazy things on youtube. I wondered why any one has not put a Car alternator on the electric bike to recharge the batteries. It does not seem like it would be a big draw to lug you down. Has anyone ever seen that?

Anyone seen that? Would it work?

the.hatter said:
I may be in a similar position as the OP, probably know less, so I'll be watching this thread closely.

I'm leaning towards electric as well, because it seems a better match with riders who still want to pedal than compared to gas. Problem for me is the price seems to be so much greater than gas kits.

I found this site, their rear hub geared motor looks perfect (except for the price tag):

E-Bike Kits and Conversions Store From AmpedBikes.com

Not trying to push their products, apologize if it's a rules violation for posting their link!

From what I've gathered, front hub kits can be dangerous. Strength of the forks is more critical, and if the motor locks up then you're probably going to have a nasty crash.

Experts please chime in!!

BarelyAWake · Jun 24, 2011

I think as tallcrown started to hint at... that the question may be not so much what's the best bike (dependent on personal preference) or what's the best motor (dependent on expected speed/ability) as both of those don't demand much of an investment and can be upgraded easily because of that...

...but in my personal opinion - more about current battery tech, it's initial cost vs longevity, weight vs capacity etc? I mean, unless you're going w/your basic SLAs - the cost of the batteries themselves often exceed the price of the bike & motor combined - yet can still be used w/any bike & motor (of the same voltage ofc)...

However en00b that I may be - I prolly outa point out that "put(ing) a car alternator on the electric bike to recharge the batteries" won't work I'm afraid, it will take more energy to drive the alternator than it would create

Blasted physics, always keepin' a man down

camlifter · Jun 24, 2011

it would take about 5 hp to run an alternator fast enough to charge a battery and still would not keep up with the draw on the battery from the motor.

the ampedbike kits are nice, i have a friend who has one of there 500w rear kits. it does about 2 mph faster than my front kit. but he has sla batterys which are very heavy. once you upgrade the amped kit to lipos the cost really jumps up.

with my front hub kit which has a 3 speed selector, if i keep it in low range which does 7 mph and pedal along it will go all week with out a recharge.

on my gas bikes i never pedal, but with the electric i find myself peadling all the time and like the exercise i get from it. i even recently bought a high end hybrid pedal bike that i ride to work every day. i would have never done that if i was always on a gas bike.

tallcrown · Jun 24, 2011

However en00b that I may be - I prolly outa point out that "put(ing) a car alternator on the electric bike to recharge the batteries" won't work I'm afraid, it will take more energy to drive the alternator than it would create
I wonder?
If we always went along with the thought that you "can't do that". We would still be with the cave men. Oh thats right. Even one of the Cave Men had the idea of the wheel. Most of the time tell us what we "can" do and we can get it done.
Myth Busters jr. Here ?
You can call the recharging unit whatever you want. Alternator, Generator, Gerbil Plant, Pedal Pump.
But something that you could pedal power on your bike for 5-10 miles and give a charge to your batteries. Then put enough power back in your batteries to go 1 miles with your electric motor would be great advancement.
Would that be possible with a "Pedal Pump"? If not Why? What would it take?
I wonder dont you?

Look at it this way. If we figure it out here. There will be another country that will market it and sell it back to us here in the USA

the.hatter · Jun 24, 2011

Happened on this yesterday, which was new to me (won't be to a lot of you lol) on ES:

Endless-sphere.com • View topic - Commuter Booster - <1kg Friction Drive

It's still a working prototype, he's currently in alpha testing, so if you wanted to do something like this you may need a bit of a DIY spirit.

Or in action:

YouTube - ‪Commuter Booster - eBike - Ride around the block‬&rlm;

It's a friction drive system, which is something you may want to consider in addition to the electric chain drive, or hub motors. Looks better suited for people who just want a pedal assist, as opposed to converting their bike to a scooter.

Pros:
-Small and lightweight
-Zero resistance when not using
-Mountable on aluminum/carbon bikes (I would think)

Cons:
-Not going to work well when in wet conditions as tire will become slippery
-Probably not going to work as well on heavy bikes
-Power you can transfer limited by friction between drive shaft and tire
-Will probably require alignment adjustments to stay in the sweet spot of just enough contact to be efficient
-Increased tire wire (potentially)

BarelyAWake · Jun 24, 2011

Many electric motors offer advanced regenerative features, including variable rates as to reduce the inherent drag while pedaling... which sounds like exactly what your proposing - without the alternator ofc

motorbiker · Jun 24, 2011

BarelyAWake said:
I think as tallcrown started to hint at... that the question may be not so much what's the best bike (dependent on personal preference) or what's the best motor (dependent on expected speed/ability) as both of those don't demand much of an investment and can be upgraded easily because of that...

...but in my personal opinion - more about current battery tech, it's initial cost vs longevity, weight vs capacity etc? I mean, unless you're going w/your basic SLAs - the cost of the batteries themselves often exceed the price of the bike & motor combined - yet can still be used w/any bike & motor (of the same voltage ofc)...

However en00b that I may be - I prolly outa point out that "put(ing) a car alternator on the electric bike to recharge the batteries" won't work I'm afraid, it will take more energy to drive the alternator than it would create

Blasted physics, always keepin' a man down

And some cranksets cost more than a real nice battery pack !

Universal Cycles -- Cranksets > Road Cranksets > Campagnolo Cranksets

http://stores.headway-headquarters.com/-strse-DIY-BATTERY-PACK-KITS/Categories.bok

Mike B · Jun 28, 2011

You can certainly pedal to recharge your betteries, but you have to remember that there is an efficiency to every energy conversion device.

In other words, you would be better off pedalling to move the bike than to recharge the batteries.

tallcrown · Jun 28, 2011

Mike B said:
You can certainly pedal to recharge your betteries, but you have to remember that there is an efficiency to every energy conversion device.

In other words, you would be better off pedalling to move the bike than to recharge the batteries.

Yes... But, lets dig a little more here.
I ride (pedal) at least 10 miles a day. Some people who have a motor or electric bike will not pedal because they do not really need to.
If I pedal while I am using my electric power can I also charge my batteries? How much? What is the best process to use. I am not saying that I will gain 5 miles of battery power for 5 miles of pedal. But could I gain 1-2 miles in battery for every 5 miles I pedal? What is best and/or easiest process. I already plan on a solar panel on a small trailer. Another thing to think about. If I have a 48 volt system and am charging lower voltage maybe 12 volts. Would I have to put a switch to separate each of the 4 batteries while charging? Which would not work if using 48 volts.

There has got to be more options for us rather than just buy an Ebike and then plug it in every few hours.

DuctTapedGoat · Jun 28, 2011

Actually - the original eBike was SWEET - it had no power to accelerate it was a true motor ASSISTED bicycle. It's concept was that it would maintain whatever speed you pedaled to. Granted, before they went under we're talking a 4000 dollar bike off the wall.

SANGESF · Jul 6, 2011

tallcrown said:
Hello,
I was out and saw a Gas Motorized Bicycle. At that moment I said "Wow I need one of them. I decided to go with electric. Why? Basicly because I do not want any problem with getting stopped and get a hard time on laws and interpretation of it, Tickets ?. Really I just want to go out and enjoy a trip. Not how fast I go, but rather for fun.

The purpose of this Bike is for transportation. But not just to the 7-11. But a trip, 100 mile trip or farther. Pedal is most of trip, But support on hills

Electric system on a bike, a tandem or maybe a lightweight trailer. From your experience what is the best way to go?
My purpose of this Thread is to get a forum going to discuss the pros and cons. But please put a little support information on why it is a Pro or Con on specific styles/options of Electric Bicycles.
Thanks

NJ currently classifies electric bikes as mopeds and requires reg and ins.. No Ebike is on the NJ approved moped list, so you still might have problems with the PoPo...

Expect a hub motor and/or large trailer and ~$1,000 in batteries to get 100 miles out of an electric kit.

usv · Aug 3, 2011

a picture of what is required for a 100 mile battery range e-bike...
Twitpic - Share photos and videos on Twitter
74 lbs of lithium batteries in the trailer...added weight is not always a bad thing = high speed downhill runs...top downhill speed during that trip was about 62 mph.

Wm Holden · Aug 3, 2011

1000 dollars in batteries?

FarRider · Aug 16, 2011

74 lbs of battery's? a trailer to haul them?

I've been thinking of a 29er wheeled, thin tired, hard tailed aluminum all electric mountain bike with a 1000 watt rear hub motor with a 48v 12 ah LiPo battery, no pedalec, thumb throttle only, and a 35 amp programmable controller so I can add another battery IF I HAVE TO, 7 speed cassette and disc brakes.
I know this isn't terribly scientific, but my good old bathroom and fish weight scale tells me it would weigh about 65 to 75 pounds with one battery and go around 40 to 50 mph depending on rider weight, route, terrain, weather (remember, electrics dont like rain) and gearing and peddle assist.
The 48V, 12 AH aluminum cased brick battery should give it a approximate range of 45 to 50 miles before it needs a recharge.

I live in Brooklyn NY, I work in Manhattan, a distance of 16 miles, that's a 36 mile round trip.
I can plug it in and fully recharge it while I'm working.
IF I use the dual battery set up I wouldn't have to charge it at all.
Unless your planning an epic (100 mile plus ride)
May I ask, why would you want to go 100 miles on it?
Just my two cents worth.
FR
P.S.
The dual powered trike looks cool.

tallcrown · Aug 16, 2011

FarRider said:
74 lbs of battery's? a trailer to haul them?

I've been thinking of a 29er wheeled, thin tired, hard tailed aluminum all electric mountain bike with a 1000 watt rear hub motor with a 48v 12 ah LiPo battery, no pedalec, thumb throttle only, and a 35 amp programmable controller so I can add another battery IF I HAVE TO, 7 speed cassette and disc brakes.
I know this isn't terribly scientific, but my good old bathroom and fish weight scale tells me it would weigh about 65 to 75 pounds with one battery and go around 40 to 50 mph depending on rider weight, route, terrain, weather (remember, electrics dont like rain) and gearing and peddle assist.
The 48V, 12 AH aluminum cased brick battery should give it a approximate range of 45 to 50 miles before it needs a recharge.

I live in Brooklyn NY, I work in Manhattan, a distance of 16 miles, that's a 36 mile round trip.
I can plug it in and fully recharge it while I'm working.
IF I use the dual battery set up I wouldn't have to charge it at all.
Unless your planning an epic (100 mile plus ride)
May I ask, why would you want to go 100 miles on it?
Just my two cents worth.
FR
P.S.
The dual powered trike looks cool.

100 miles. Seems like a reasonable distance.
If you are riding to the store and home 15-20 miles is ok. But lets say you take a trip across the country with a small trailer. Some hills are 10 miles long and farther.You pedal a lot of the way, but then you hit hills and tough areas. With a 100 mile capacity you keep up your speed and dont burn yourself out on one of those big hills. Hills would bring you down to a limit of 50-60 miles. But at least one charge would last you one day. Not 20 minutes.
Just an idea.
and as far as 1000.00 in batteries. I am sure that if anyone searches prices out you could easily knock 45% off of a price like that. We all know there are people who sell the same wheel hub kit for 200.00 to 500.00. Same thing.

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