Install Problem. Need Help!

GoldenMotor.com

Panama

New Member
Feb 5, 2015
12
0
0
El Giral, Panama
I have run into a serious problem with my engine install and I need advice. I mentioned in my original post (see here: http://motorbicycling.com/showthread.php?p=596759#post596759) that I was concerned about the wide tires on my Huffy Deluxe beach cruiser not leaving enough room for the chain to run past. It appears my fears have been realized (see photos at end of thread). After I took these photos, I removed the rear fender but there is still not enough room for the chain to run. The lower run off the sprocket, past the fork, is barely squeaking past, thanks to the pulley, but giving that enough space causes problems farther up. Where the chain needs to pass by the tire to the engine, the chain is rubbing against the tire, on both top and bottom runs. I'm confused because other people claim to have used a Huffy Deluxe but I have seen no mention of this problem.

Can I somehow move the drive sprocket on the engine out 1/2" or make some other modification? Someone suggested shifting the rear wheel over on the axle but that does not appear possible since the hub+nuts already takes up the entire space between the forks. Even if that were possible, the tire would then be rubbing up against the original chain guard on the other side.

Do I just need to buy a new wheel with a narrower tire?
 

2door

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 15, 2008
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Littleton, Colorado
You can not move the engine drive sprocket. You'll have to find a way to move the rear wheel or the driven sprocket instead.

Keep in mind that the critical issue here is sprocket/chain alignment. The chain can't run at an angle. It must be a straight line between the two sprockets. Whatever you need to do to achieve that is what you have to do.

I'm not familiar with your bike or how wide the rear tire is but there have been many installs on bikes with fat or even extra wide rear tires. Some of those require the engine to be off-set in the frame to the left. But, now you're looking at custom fabricated engine mounts.

Have you explored moving the rear sprocket out, or to the left slightly? Spacers?
And do not try to 'guide' the chain away from the tire with the chain tensioner. That will cause you more problems. The tensioner should align with the chain path, not try to correct or alter it.

Tom
 

2door

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 15, 2008
16,302
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Littleton, Colorado
I've been studying the two photos in your original thread. Now I have some questions.

Have you shortened the chain?

Have you installed the chain tensioner (hopefully before you shortened the chain)

Are the driven (rear) sprocket bolt heads touching the frame? They appear to be.

Tom
 

Davezilla

New Member
Mar 15, 2014
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San Antonio Texas
I'm also seeing you got a regular flat sprocket and you may be able to just buy a dished rear sprocket to get the alignment you need. The dished srrocket will give you about 1/4" offset in whichever direction you need but you'll need to make sure your front to rear sprockets are still inline with eachother.

It's kinda hard to tell from the pictures how far off they are from eachother but if it's less than 1/2" I'd try using a dished rear sprocket with the teeth facing outboard if you have the rear fork clearance.

Another alternative would be to realign the rear hub by loosening all the spokes on the left side and tightening all the ones on the right side if you have enough adjustment range on the spokes, you may need to get 2 different length spokes to offset the hub over enough to clear the tire and find a happy medium between the tire to chain clearance on both sides. this is a little trickier than trying a dished sprocket if you've never had to adjust spokes or lace a wheel before but it's an effective way to push the hub out forther on one side.
 

boxcar

New Member
Dec 18, 2014
358
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Astoria OR
Looks to me that your rear wheel is not set straight or center'd in the frame.
Check the gap between the frame and tire at the stays ( nearest the crank )
You should have at least 1/4" on each side.
Your picture shows that it is damn near rubbing on the drive side.
Hope this helps.
Oh , a dished sprocket will help.
 

Panama

New Member
Feb 5, 2015
12
0
0
El Giral, Panama
Everyone,

Here is an update with new photos and answers to many questions. First, no, I have not yet shortened the chain. I looped it around the sprocket to see how it would run. The tensioner is loosely installed but it's easy enough to adjust it, of course. The rear sprocket bolt heads do not touch the frame; there is enough clearance there.

Regarding the dished sprocket proposal: I can't purchase that part right now because I'm in Panama! Shipping anything here is slow and expensive, assuming the package arrives at all. Regardless, I don't think a dished sprocket would help because the issue is that the tire comes out too far into the path of the chain as it leaves the drive sprocket on the engine. And I don't have enough clearance on the fork end to use a dish.

The wheel was properly aligned in those earlier photos, maybe the camera angle made it appear that it wasn't. However, I found that if I intentionally misalign the wheel a TINY bit (1/8''), the chain is no longer rubbing on the side of the tire and has a clear path between the fork part of the frame and the tire. My concern is that this path is extremely narrow (no more than 1/8'' for the tire up front or the frame in the back), so any sway in the chain at all would cause it to brush up against the frame or tire. This of course would be bad/potentially catastrophic.

Please examine the new photos and see if you have any ideas. My conclusion at this point is that a custom mount or rear wheel (or at tire) replacement are the only solutions. The former isn't possible given my current location and level of expertise, so I'm planning on the latter, assuming I can find the right tire/wheel at a bike shop in the big city.

Thanks,
Steve
 

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boxcar

New Member
Dec 18, 2014
358
4
0
Astoria OR
Tight , very tight. A narrower tire, Or possibly having the wheel dished at the bike shop will solve your problem. If you can find one.
The only shop I could locate at all on the web was a shop in Panama City. With varying reviews.

I spent the second day walking around in a steady light rain looking for a bike shop, and finally found Bicicletas Rali somewhere along Av España (near the corner with Av Argentina
Wish you luck....
 

Panama

New Member
Feb 5, 2015
12
0
0
El Giral, Panama
Victory! I have almost everything installed on the bike now and figured out a solution. After half a day wandering around Panama City, I finally found a decent (and affordable) bike shop. Here's what I did:
1. Replaced the rear tire and tube with a narrower set. I was able to use the original rim, which saved me a lot more hassle.
2. Used a 2x4 to bend the fork wider.
3. Inserted 3 washers on the axle next to the nut inside the dropout. This also gave me the chance to learn the Spanish word for washer, "arandela."

This gave me enough space to run the chain past both the fork and the wheel while keeping it straight. The bike shop also had caliper brakes, so I have those installed front and back.

I have a couple more questions for which I am going to start a new thread, but I'm almost there. Thanks for all your advice!
 

boxcar

New Member
Dec 18, 2014
358
4
0
Astoria OR
Glad to here it all worked out.
Hey. Post up the location of that bike shop for future Panama Builders.......
 

Panama

New Member
Feb 5, 2015
12
0
0
El Giral, Panama
Boxcar,

Good idea asking for the bike shop location. Should I post the info here or is there somewhere else it would be most accessible? Regardless, here's the scoop:

Panama City has nearly everything available but finding anything is an undertaking. I found multiple bike shops but most seem to be very small and specialized, with very few parts available. The one I found that has many parts at affordable prices (probably due to somewhat questionable quality...) is actually in a large "everything store" called El Machetazo. Anyone looking for it should know that there are several locations in the city but, as far as I know, the only location that has a large bike department is the one near the La Loteria metro stop in the Calidonia neighborhood.

For those looking for higher quality parts and very specialized items, there is also the Rali store on Avenida Balboa near the Multicentro, on the avenida just before it turns to the north, away from the Pacific. That store has a lot of gear and parts but buying what I needed there (brakes and a new tire) would have cost more than my entire bike! If you want the finest components and price is no object, then Rali is the place to go.

A final note about motorized bikes in Panama: A gentleman at one of the stores I visited warned me that the police might confiscate my bike if I did not have a motorcycle license, since they could consider it a motorcycle due to the gas engine. This presumably would not be an issue for electric motors. I'm not concerned for my bike because I'm using it in a very rural area which has basically no police presence. Even if they were here, they wouldn't care. But this is a consideration for anyone actually planning to use their rig in the big city.
 

Tyler6357

Well-Known Member
Mar 15, 2012
1,293
294
83
Santa Barbara, CA
It looks like I'm late to this thread and you already found a solution. If you continue to have this problem you could try getting a smaller chain. I use a Wippermann BMX 1R8 chain I got from my local bicycle shop. It is 1/2 x 1/8 and is one of the strongest BMX chains available. It is nickel coated with reinforced plates. It has a breaking load of 12,500 Newton. It's thinner than the 415 and you can use it as a regular bike chain too, but I found that it runs through my china girl sprocket much smoother and with less drag than the bulky 415 and it gave me a little more clearance from the wheel even with the fat tires. It will run through most standard wheel sprockets with no problems. I have been running mine for over a year with no twisting at all.