1910 Pierce Clone - "Peace"

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MarkSumpter

MarkSumpter

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curtisfox said:
I think it could be done you would have to run the belt around the outside of the flywheel. most of the starter generator set ups were on bigger engines. You would hve to make sure to get the right on some turn clock wise and some counter clock wise. Then you need the regulater to go with it.They only put out about 12 amps but that was enough for garden tractors...Curt
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Curtis one of the big concerns that you would have to address if you were going to mount any starter on an engine like this one is the size of the starter and the amount of cranking amps needed.

These and all other engines of their day were built long before centrifugal compression releases were driven by the crank to slightly open the exhaust valve prematurely and decrease compression when starting. Heck if you set a Briggs Vanguard that is made todays valve lash a little too loose on the exhaust the starter wont even crank them over once. You would definitely have to put in a manual compression release.

The kiddy starters that are made for engines today would barely crank this engine with no plug let alone under full compression and the size of the battery would be too big for a bike. This is besides the mounting and shrouding issues you would encounter.

In all the mods you would have to do would ruin the ambiance of the engine and the sheer fun of pulling it over... LOL They even get more fun on some of the oldsters if you pull the points rack off of them and don't retime the point break properly with a dial indicator and VOM (that is how I got my first Norton Commando, can you say KERPOW)...
 
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MarkSumpter

MarkSumpter

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fasteddy said:
Fun pulling the starter? I have one arm that is 4 inches longer than the other already.

Steve.
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LOL Now why would one arm be that much longer?

I have always had the belief that if I went to an engine and it doesn't start in 1 pull or at the very most on the second then there is something wrong and it went back to either my bench or who ever worked on it to get fixed right.

Even my vintage engines with bell and rope starters amazed a lot of people how easily they started. Part is knowing how to start an engine properly and the other half is knowing how to tune one properly.

I have an 064 Stihl saw in my garage that hadn't been started in over a year I put in new gas and pulled it through once on choke the other day with the ignition off to prime it and then brought it to TDC and popped it once and it was running. My neighbor was also out cutting wood with me and he had to yank like 5 times before his Husky caught. Well maintained equipment and simple knowledge of how it works in action.
 
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fasteddy

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Worked for years for a auctioneer who loved buying old lawn mowers and repairing them for sale. I was the furniture repair and refinisher {my trade}for his antique business. I made the serious mistake of messing with a couple of lawn mowers that no one could get going and got lucky.

New horizons opened up for me and not being too bright I walked over to see just what they were. I wasn't good but just lucky enough to be dangerous.
Yes, I learned pretty fast if it didn't start on the second pull there was a good chance something was wrong and I went looking for it.

Steve.
 
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curtisfox

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Dec 29, 2008
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MarkSumpter said:
Curtis one of the big concerns that you would have to address if you were going to mount any starter on an engine like this one is the size of the starter and the amount of cranking amps needed.

These and all other engines of their day were built long before centrifugal compression releases were driven by the crank to slightly open the exhaust valve prematurely and decrease compression when starting. Heck if you set a Briggs Vanguard that is made todays valve lash a little too loose on the exhaust the starter wont even crank them over once. You would definitely have to put in a manual compression release.

The kiddy starters that are made for engines today would barely crank this engine with no plug let alone under full compression and the size of the battery would be too big for a bike. This is besides the mounting and shrouding issues you would encounter.

In all the mods you would have to do would ruin the ambiance of the engine and the sheer fun of pulling it over... LOL They even get more fun on some of the oldsters if you pull the points rack off of them and don't retime the point break properly with a dial indicator and VOM (that is how I got my first Norton Commando, can you say KERPOW)...
Click to expand...
Yep you would need at least a garden tractor size battery and the generator is almost as big as a 3 hp engine. I think it would still turn a small engine like that. If needed you can make a compresion release. Fun Fun.....Curt
Better might be a newer type starter and machine in a stater for charging...
 
MarkSumpter

MarkSumpter

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curtisfox said:
Yep you would need at least a garden tractor size battery and the generator is almost as big as a 3 hp engine. I think it would still turn a small engine like that. If needed you can make a compresion release. Fun Fun.....Curt
Better might be a newer type starter and machine in a stater for charging...
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Heck dude the crank, piston and jug in that old Wisconsin weighs nearly as much as a 3 hp and the crank journal size is prolly closer to the 3 horse bore than its journal diameter. LOL... Like I said it would most likely give a modern lawn and garden starter a very short life span even with a compression release if it would crank at all.

Back when I worked for a Wisconsin dealer and was the only one in the shop he would let do total rebuilds I left with a sore back more often than not from those glorified anchors.
 
LouieMCman

LouieMCman

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Your right this Wisconsin is real heavy and I have something special in mind for flywheel fan.......keep tuned in! I know what you mean by one arm being longer, I switch arm every now and then to keep them even.
 
MarkSumpter

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fasteddy said:
First Wisconson 2 cylinder motor I saw, I thought came out of a Crosley car. Think the Crosley motor was smaller though.

Steve.
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Ha I have an old VL-64 (64 denotes HP) Wisconsin 4 cylinder out in the barn with a 3 inch output shaft that I have been threatening to build into a generator.
 
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fasteddy

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Fella wants to sell me a running late 20's, early 30's Briggs and Stratton engine delivered to Washington state for $350. What is the going price for a running engine?

Steve.
 
MarkSumpter

MarkSumpter

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fasteddy said:
Fella wants to sell me a running late 20's, early 30's Briggs and Stratton engine delivered to Washington state for $350. What is the going price for a running engine?

Steve.
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It would all depend on what it is and what shape it is in. Since it was started in 1908 there are several years of machines before that date and usually the earlier the better. Some people might see a B&S from the 50s or 60s that were still produced for Matag as a washer machine engine and think they are 30s or 40s. Get pics and numbers from the shroud crankcase and carb to make sure they all fit that engine and not cobbled together.
 
MarkSumpter

MarkSumpter

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I had a 1920 engine from a model D buckboard wheel car they built that sold for a good chunk and another from a 1919 that was built from 3 different engines that I couldn't hardly give away. Funny thing is the 1919 ran and the 1920 didn't. The serious collectors are a very funny group and like stuff absolutely original. If the guy you are talking to is selling a 20s - 30s engine for $350 you darn well better do your home work. You are either getting a good deal from someone that knows no better or burnt to high hades by a huckster. There will be no middle ground if it is indeed of that genre.
 
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fasteddy

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I spent most of my life in the antique car and antique furniture business. I got teeth marks all over where the sun don't shine but none of them are new. Not the sharpest cottonball in the bag so when I'm in new waters I ask people who are at home there.

I'll e-mail the guy tonight and see if he has it and ask for photo's. Have an idea that he knows what he has and may want to dump the lesser of the two he says he owns.
As my old English Grandmother always said, if you want to find a fool in the country, you better take him with you.

Steve.
 
LouieMCman

LouieMCman

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Continuing with the frame I used a used go cart mounting plate and jack shaft which was shortened and re-welded. I had the angle measurements from pictures of Pierce fours and single to try and made as close as possible while using the Wisconsin engine. One of the hardest parts to fab was the frame saddles where the 3" tubing butts up to each other. I mostly used hole saws and a 1/2" drill motor to rough in the correct angles and finished with a grinder and files. I did add an extra layer of steel under the top tube on the front side for more strength. I made the gas tank in the top tube and tested before welding any of the frame together. Looking at the pictures the rear downtube ended up being more verticle and a of course a lot shorter. If you study the difference between the Pierce four and single frames you will notice that the rear down tubes are different, one stops at the gas tank and the other extends past it. I decided to extend it past the tank and mount the seat to it like the Pierce Four model. Once everything was fit all was aligned by center lines and measurements and welded in place. Next on to the rear end.
 

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LouieMCman

LouieMCman

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May 28, 2010
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Once I got the frame the way I wanted it, I laid it flat on the concrete with all center lines aligned and tacked it and then rechecked everything. Seemed to work OK, the rear section was tougher, I'll get to that later.
 
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