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nightcruiser

New Member
Mar 25, 2011
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How do you tune the carb?
Hmm, carbs, the good news is this is about the simplest carb around, bad news there isn't one thing to know but rather a lot of things to take into consideration. Let me try to give you a general summary of what is going on in the carb.....

When the piston pulls down it creates a suction which draws air through the carb, this air draws fuel up from the carb bowl through the carb jet which mixes with the air. Tuning this mixture is tuning your carb. When there is too much fuel and not enough air it is called "rich", when there is too much air and not enough fuel it's called "lean". A rich mix may make your motor run poorly, a lean mix may make it run too hot.

There are several factors that come in play here...The size of the hole in the main jet is one major factor, the bigger the more fuel in the mix. The air filter offers some resistance to air flow, more resistance means less air to fuel so it richens the mix. (so keep your air filter clean, cause if it gets too dirty it can richen your mix and make your motor run poorly) The muffler also offers some resistance to air flow as well so a change in the exhaust can also effect the mix. It's a sealed system that must be balanced to make your mix proper, for this reason it is very important that you don't have any air leaks at the carb/intake, intake/cylinder, and exhaust/cylinder junctions. (and at the cylinder head as well for that matter) Your oil/fuel mixture also has an effect on your air/fuel mixture, the oil displaces gas, so more oil will lean out your air/fuel mix.

Inside your carb you have the slide which has the needle inside it. When the throttle is at rest the slide is blocking off the air flow through the throat of the carb and the needle is down inside the main jet reducing the size of the opening and limiting the fuel flow. When you twist the throttle the slide and needle rise opening up the throat of the carb for more air flow and lifting the needle out of the jet allowing more fuel to flow. (the idle screw simply props up the slide a little bit to allow a little air and fuel to flow, its like twisting the throttle a tiny bit) The carbs need to be tuned for three throttle ranges, idle/low, middle and WOT (Wide Open Throttle). I know, seems like it should be simpler, but its not too complicated....

You need to start out tuning for WOT, because the factors that control the WOT mix will effect all throttle ranges. The resistance of the air filter and exhaust and the size of the main jet have the most effect here. The fuel level in the carb bowl will also effect the mix at WOT, so the float setting will affect the mix since it sets the fuel level in the bowl.

Once you have a good mix at WOT you then tune for the mid throttle range. The needle setting has the most effect on mid throttle tuning. The top of the needle will have several grooves in it with a little clip on one of them, moving this clip is how you adjust the needle setting. If you move the clip toward the end of the needle (away from the point that goes in the jet) the needle will set deeper in the jet and therefore reduce fuel flow and lean out your mid throttle mix. If you move the clip toward the point it pulls the needle further out of the jet allowing more fuel to flow creating a richer mid throttle mix.

The final adjustment is the idle/low throttle range. To set this you simply screw in the idle screw to the desired idle speed, and then adjust the air/mix screw to where the motor idles best.

With a new motor you kind-of need to hold your horses a bit on tuning, because the break-in fuel mix effects the tuning and the fact that the rings on the piston haven't set yet. For break in you need to run more oil in the fuel to help get all the moving parts in the new motor lubricated. If you've got your motor running fairly decent and you are running break in fuel then you should let the carb be for the time being and let the rings set and wait until you are on your regular fuel mix before you start tuning your carb.

By now you are probably wondering how the he!! you figure out what you have going on in your carb, rich or lean, or in between? The best way to tell is by doing a "plug chop". To do a WOT plug chop you ride the bike until its warmed up, then ride at WOT for a bit then all at once let off the throttle, pull in the clutch and hold down on the kill switch. (So the motor dies and is disengaged from the rear wheel) Pedal the bike home and let the motor cool and then pull the spark plug and inspect it. (never remove a hot spark plug) To do a mid throttle plug chop do the same while riding at mid throttle....

Here is a link to a very helpful chart that can help you read your spark plug and determine what is going on in your combustion chamber....

http://www.dansmc.com/Spark_Plugs/Spark_Plugs_catalog.html

That is a pretty complete general overview, hope it wasn't too complicated... My advice to you would be to make sure you don't have air leaks, make sure your head is torqued down proper, ride through two gallons of break in fuel mix and than analyze how your motor is running at WOT when you are running a standard fuel mix and go from there. Post back at that time and we can help you figure out how to tune your carb up if need be....
 
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Dasmailca

New Member
Mar 20, 2013
32
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0
Nova Scotia
Wow
Nightcruiser, I am overwhelmed and appreciative that you took so much time to explain and type it in. Thank you.
I changed to 32:1 today and took it for a 30 min ride. No change. There seems to be a sweet spot at about 26 kph. When I try to open it up 29 to 30 kph is all I can get. (30 kph is about 18 mph. )
I think it is a carb problem and am going to take the carb off and tinker with it.
(As per your instructions.
 

Dasmailca

New Member
Mar 20, 2013
32
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0
Nova Scotia
I have ordered a new kit (actually 2. The wife wants her own motorized bicycle plus I have a tandem to motorize. )
I think I will put a new carb on the motor before I change it and see if it makes a difference.
 

nightcruiser

New Member
Mar 25, 2011
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Wow
Nightcruiser, I am overwhelmed and appreciative that you took so much time to explain and type it in. Thank you.
I changed to 32:1 today and took it for a 30 min ride. No change. There seems to be a sweet spot at about 26 kph. When I try to open it up 29 to 30 kph is all I can get. (30 kph is about 18 mph. )
I think it is a carb problem and am going to take the carb off and tinker with it.
(As per your instructions.
Actually, pretty sure I said if your motor is running good enough to ride you should burn through 2 gallons of break in fuel and then ride a standard mix before you tinker with the carb.
If you have done that then you should do step 1 of the carb tuning, which would be to do a plug chop at WOT and see what the spark plug looks like. Post a picture of that and then we can give you advice what to do to try and tune the carb, best not to just blindly tinker, seek advice.... and read back over the overview I had written a few times, it should start to make a some sense....
 

Dasmailca

New Member
Mar 20, 2013
32
0
0
Nova Scotia
Yesterday I went for another 30 min. Drive. No change. Just before I got home the motor stalled and would not restart.
Today before I tried it again I removed the plug and found a black oily bit touching the electrode and the shiny thing I cleaned it and changed the gap to .28. After a short ride which felt better, things got really better it worked very similar to its original. Will still do the WoT chop and report back.
 

MotorBicycleRacing

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2010
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SoCal Baby!!!
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After a short ride which felt better, things got really better it worked very similar to its original.

Will still do the WoT chop and report back.
Still kind of confused about what happened to your bike with the initial 50 to 1 ratio oil you used for 2 gallons.
What brand of oil did you use?

Plug chops are done with a brand new unused plug.
You won't get readable results with a used plug.

You also have to kill the motor and coast to a stop, etc
Google plug chops to get all the info.
 

Dasmailca

New Member
Mar 20, 2013
32
0
0
Nova Scotia
Still kind of confused about what happened to your bike with the initial 50 to 1 ratio oil you used for 2 gallons.
What brand of oil did you use?

Plug chops are done with a brand new unused plug.
You won't get readable results with a used plug.

You also have to kill the motor and coast to a stop, etc
Google plug chops to get all the info.
Sorry to confuse.
I started with 50:1 not sure how I got that after all the reading that I had done. But I got it backwords. Anyway I switched to 16:1 thinking I was ok and that's when the trouble began.
Since then I have followed advice above and after 2 tanks at 32:1
things seem very good.
Sunday I took a 40 km (24 mile) trip and had a very good experience. Travelled at 45 kms. (27 mph) for much of the way.
I have used a house brand of oil.
I did have the dreaded gas tank failure around one of the bolts, but that is another thread.
 

LAguyyy

Super Skilled Master Newb
Feb 25, 2013
37
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Honolulu, hi
Could be a loose/bad head stud with slight loss of compression randomly. Happened to me but easy to know when you hear the loud high pitch screaching.
 

Dasmailca

New Member
Mar 20, 2013
32
0
0
Nova Scotia
Have since put another 100 or more miles on bike with pretty good success. Plan to do plug chop this weekend.
I did another 30 mile trip and for the first half the bike did not work at wot but when I let off just a tiny bit it seemed to pick up and work great. If I slowed down and gradually sped up it worked fine.
Second half of trip it work excellent. Responding to the throttle as you would expect.
Have made several more shorter trips and it worked fine. I think I have a slight exhaust leak at the gasket as there is some oil on the motor below it. Does the new gasket have to be special material ? Can you buy it to make yourself?
 

crassius

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2012
4,032
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USA
I've seen some motors take a LOT of time to fully warm up on cool days, WOT doesn't work right away.

A muffler flange that hasn't been filed nice & flat will leak a bit, or if your hanger at the bottom of the muffler isn't tight & solid it may leak a bit.
 

Jumpa

New Member
Aug 12, 2011
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Cape Cod
I use gasket material made for for steam pipes it's about 1/8 of an inch thick and lasts of a very long time. I'll get the name and post back
 

Jumpa

New Member
Aug 12, 2011
607
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Cape Cod

this is the thin stuff, cant remember the name but its high pressure gasket material my bro got it from work so I'm not sure where to get it retail
 

Dasmailca

New Member
Mar 20, 2013
32
0
0
Nova Scotia
Thank all you guys for your help.
Since last post I have removed the tensioner and a link but had to put it back on cause the chain was loose after a couple more rides. This time I replaced all nuts, bolts, and washers with better ones. Seems to work good.
I moved the clip one notch closer to the point on the carb needle.
During a per-ride inspection I found a rear mounting stud broken off flush with the motor. I bought a remover gizmo and replaced both with better quality.
At the same time I replaced exhaust manifold studs also. I could find bulk exhaust gasket material so I bought a set for a 350 Chevy. I made a couple but will eventually get 10 from this. I cut out the holes perfectly with a dremel and a cone shaped grinding stone.
After fixing the exhaust and the carb adjustment the bike is working great (knock on wood). It accelerates through the entire throttle range , even on some hills that it would never do before.
Top speed is 50 kph (30 mph) I usually travel around 35 kph (about 21 mph). The speed limit here for power assisted is 32 kph. I just learned.
Still mixing gas @ 32:1.
I'm pleased so far but never could get this far without all the advice and help on here.
I have over 500 kms. (300 miles) on it now.
Maybe a jack shaft ? I'd like to try one of good quality.
 

nightcruiser

New Member
Mar 25, 2011
1,180
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USA
Thank all you guys for your help.
Since last post I have removed the tensioner and a link but had to put it back on cause the chain was loose after a couple more rides....
Upgrade to a #41 farm/industrial chain and your chain will not come loose. You also have to make sure the motor is mounted solid and doesn't move. Been over 2,000 miles on my bike with #41 chain and no tensioner and the chain tension is just the same as when I assembled it...

Glad to hear you are having success, happy riding!
 

crassius

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2012
4,032
158
63
USA
chains for motorcycles are measured in 8ths of an inch

415 = 4/8 (1/2 inch) between pins and 1.5/8 (3/16 inch) between inner plates

41 is an industrial measurement that is usually 4/8 X 1/8, but can vary a bit as 'light duty' or 'heavy duty'

with proper adjustment & mounting of sprockets and tensioner, most any size chain will work just fine (even the little 410 BMX chains on the older kits)