Dose any one build and sell ? Im thinking of doing it.
I was also looking at making jugs and cases using my black sithing skills
I was also looking at making jugs and cases using my black sithing skills
build and sell
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I've thought of it- too old and stiff though.
Personally I wouldn't plan on anything but small scale- at least at first-
Jacksonville here is like a Mecca of old beach cruisers- One could build here with $50 crfuisers and kits- but on the other hand there;s already quite a few MB's on Craigslist-
i don't think I could move a great many- but I'd probably do one or two at a time and try to clear maybe a hundred dollars or so- one or two a month could be a nice income supplement.
Nothing exotic- but that could be a different market if you're into that.
I have one friend here who tried it a few years back- He seemed to think that most people weren't capable of fiddlin with them. That sort of seems true. Or they don't WANT to fiddle with them.
I've ridden mine here in town for several years- and I see others- it's never been a problem with the authorities- but, like scooters, it hasn't caught on as much as I first thought- as long as gas stays lower- but if that changes suddenly the market could swing back
Here in the warm climate- my bikes really are a lot of transportation for a little investment. But I've worked as a bike mechanic and been in cycling all my life.
Personally I wouldn't plan on anything but small scale- at least at first-
Jacksonville here is like a Mecca of old beach cruisers- One could build here with $50 crfuisers and kits- but on the other hand there;s already quite a few MB's on Craigslist-
i don't think I could move a great many- but I'd probably do one or two at a time and try to clear maybe a hundred dollars or so- one or two a month could be a nice income supplement.
Nothing exotic- but that could be a different market if you're into that.
I have one friend here who tried it a few years back- He seemed to think that most people weren't capable of fiddlin with them. That sort of seems true. Or they don't WANT to fiddle with them.
I've ridden mine here in town for several years- and I see others- it's never been a problem with the authorities- but, like scooters, it hasn't caught on as much as I first thought- as long as gas stays lower- but if that changes suddenly the market could swing back
Here in the warm climate- my bikes really are a lot of transportation for a little investment. But I've worked as a bike mechanic and been in cycling all my life.
I'm asked often if I build to sell and my reply is "too much liability". Too many hungry lawyers and lawsuit happy people out there for me. One mishap, I get blamed and sued, I'm finished.
If you can find a way to protect yourself, go for it. But just be careful, and have insurance.
Tom
If you can find a way to protect yourself, go for it. But just be careful, and have insurance.
Tom
God knows there's no shortage of bozos out there slapping engines on bikes to make a fast buck... My suggestion to you if you want to do this is to build high quality bikes that will stand above the crowd.
As for making jugs & cases... There's definately a need for higher quality parts; & if your parts are truely worth the money?, they will sell themselves!
As for making jugs & cases... There's definately a need for higher quality parts; & if your parts are truely worth the money?, they will sell themselves!
Ditto for me. I built and sold 7 of my "Chrome Micargi Cruisers" in the French Qt before this sunk in. It's been almost 2 years since I sold my last one. I gave no reciepts and took cash only, so with the normally short life of these in inexperienced hands, and a little more time I prolly will be OK and can stop worrying about it..
The ice cream man, along with a few others in my neighborhood, want me to build them a bike. They said they'll pay for the parts upfront, and then they'll pay for my labor upon receipt. I would probably charge something liek 75-125 depending on how much work is put into it (different seat, bars, forks, shift kit?).
My worry is what you guys already talked about. Taking cash does not void you of any liability, neither does not giving a receipt. Also, these engines need tinkering with. I'm worried about a jack-A$$ being stupid, messing up the engine, coming back saying I screwed it up for him.
So, like I said, many people want me to build a bike for them, I tell them I'll help you and guide you building the bike, but I won't do it for you...
If you do, make sure you have an iron clad no fault clause!!!
My worry is what you guys already talked about. Taking cash does not void you of any liability, neither does not giving a receipt. Also, these engines need tinkering with. I'm worried about a jack-A$$ being stupid, messing up the engine, coming back saying I screwed it up for him.
So, like I said, many people want me to build a bike for them, I tell them I'll help you and guide you building the bike, but I won't do it for you...
If you do, make sure you have an iron clad no fault clause!!!
I was thinking of the same thing too until I came across the liability issue. But couldn't a person build 2 or 3 bikes and throughly "break in" the engines which would qualify the bikes as being used? (they'd look used) Of course having bikes already prepped and outfitted the customer would be limited to what you had. All you have to tell the person is you want to get rid of some stuff to make room etc. etc. Wouldn't it be the same as selling a used motorcycle or car?
Add me to the list of possible bike builders. As mentioned above though, too much liability. Usually when people ask me how much, I'll try to warn them that these are not for the faint of heart. And then proceed to tell them all the quirks of these little engines ( China HTs ). By the time I'm finished, there eye's are usually glazed over! But yea, too much liability. I think anyone who is going to do this should get any potential customer to read and sign, whats known as a " hold harmless agreement " This should be enough to protect yourself, hopefully that is !!
Peace, James
Peace, James
Unfortuatly, "Hold Harmless" Agreements are not much protection at all. Ask any lawyer. If there's money in it for them, they will eagerly fight it in court.. Especialy if someone becomes permanantly incapacitated or dies on something that you built. There's no protection at all to keep the family from suing.
I used to be an Ultralight instructor, and after dealing with a few crazy students, I decided that I was exposing myself and my estate to too much liability risk.
I used to be an Ultralight instructor, and after dealing with a few crazy students, I decided that I was exposing myself and my estate to too much liability risk.
^ Interesting, I happen to also be a very part time hot air balloonist ( 34k ultralight single place ) And If I remember my FAR, and pilot training manuals. There were some examples of the so called " hold harmless agreements " and in them they went to great lengths to also include any family members, relatives. siblings, friends, and any business associates from suing, or any legal action whatsoever... I guess it would help to have an attorney type this up for you. Seems like then, it should be pretty air tight?
Peace, James
I've had quiet a few people to ask me to build a bike for them, I always tell them I'm not in business. I have "helped "four close friends build theirs for nothing. That way I am not obligated if something goes wrong.
I've built 3 bikes and sold them at cost on craigslist. I would post in the add all the costs and that I'm not making a dime on the sale. People would still haggle me down. And when I say no this is my price they would get offended. It's a problem of people wanting something for nothing.
Whenever I think of liability issues and protections against lawsuits I think of the case of a guy here in Colorado who broke into a collage gymnasium, got on a trampoline, fell off and broke his neck. He sued the collage and the trampoline manufacturer...and won.
I can't help but see me trying to defend myself against a guy who drives a bike he bought from me into a tree/house/car, gets seriously injured and says it was my fault for selling him the bike. There might be a jury who would agree with him. Where does that leave me?
Tom
I can't help but see me trying to defend myself against a guy who drives a bike he bought from me into a tree/house/car, gets seriously injured and says it was my fault for selling him the bike. There might be a jury who would agree with him. Where does that leave me?
Tom
I can't imagine ANYONE not building the bikes over worrying the misguided Big Business/ government combine intrusion again- Lawyers WILL rule your world if you let them.
I mean aren't Mr. Big and his clerk ****** downtown ALREADY denying us healthcare and costing us hours of wasted time and effort?
America has really become a chickenshot place if you let the Tower of London TV salsa contest downtown rule your life like those stupid mind-control television judge/sadists feel they have a right to.
I smell a rat here- we are being undermined again.
I mean aren't Mr. Big and his clerk ****** downtown ALREADY denying us healthcare and costing us hours of wasted time and effort?
America has really become a chickenshot place if you let the Tower of London TV salsa contest downtown rule your life like those stupid mind-control television judge/sadists feel they have a right to.
I smell a rat here- we are being undermined again.
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I am building 2 for the same customer , even after making him aware of these motors idiosyncrosy's .he is the only one so far that has not tried to haggle me down to a point where I would be paying them for a bike . after I politely explain to the hagglers that I will not compromise my product, reputation, or their safety , they seem to understand, an it accomplishes 1 important thing you get the folks who are genuinly interested in owning a mb.
it also helps to have a brotherinlaw who is an attourney writing a disclaimer for me that will also go in the owners manual that the customer will recieve upon reciept of the bikes .
Do your home work cover your bases an take the plunge , dont let fear hold back any of us to move our sport / hobby forward into a more main stream public veiw.
Gary
Besides the liability issue, as already stated an always present and obvious cloud hanging over these things, there's no real money in it. Equally frustrating for me is finding the right customers. By that I mean folks who want to lay out good money and KNOW they are gonna have to maintain and tinker on the thing some because, well it's a bicycle. Hard finding those kind of people. The folks who approach me, by and large for the most part, are the kind that think they'd be buying a Honda or Yamaha quality scooter for 1/3 the price. I just know they would be a real pain in the neck expecting me to maintain and take care of every little thing that might come up, regardless of how they abused it.
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thats the parts an service end of it , ya just treat it like a auto dealer treats you when you bring back your car for service ....regardless of how you have abused it . its not a cut an dry sale never see it again its being the dealer who sells you the vehicle an services the vehicle , so you make maoney on the sale an when they return for service you have the opportunity to make labor charges an parts sales .
Gary
Does anyone know of anybody that has been sued over these bikes? First off there are few of us that have much to be sued for anyhow. If anyone were to be sued I would think it would have been the people who sell and make these kits specificaly targeted to mount on a bike not designed for them and they haven't to my knowlege. They put a very small disclaimer on their sites which seems to have done the trick for them at least.
Being paid or not don't cut it either...if you work on my car's brakes for free and an accident happens being not paid doesn't exclude your liability IMO. I could be wrong but I don't think I am but at any rate I wouldn't hesitate to build one for anyone for free or profit.
Being paid or not don't cut it either...if you work on my car's brakes for free and an accident happens being not paid doesn't exclude your liability IMO. I could be wrong but I don't think I am but at any rate I wouldn't hesitate to build one for anyone for free or profit.
Built 8 and sold them all.
No problems.
Too many things to worry about in this world, selling a bike isn't one of them.
No problems.
Too many things to worry about in this world, selling a bike isn't one of them.
That's why I "helped " my friends build theirs, they did most of the work as I told them what to do. So if something happens they did the work.
