A question about additives

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Motor awesomeness

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Nov 3, 2014
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Hey guys on the motorized bicycle forum, I am wondering if it's okay to use additives that are designed for cars in a 2 stroke chainsaw engine? The claim (below) dosen't say anything about using it in a 2 stroke. I know that sea foam motor treatment works as a effective 2 stroke additive, but what about Lucas fuel system cleaner aka tune up in a bottle. Here is Lucas oil's claim: (below the link)
(from http://lucasoil.com/products/fuel-treatments/lucas-fuel-treatment)

A powerful blend of oils and additives that contain no SOLVENTS. Designed to increase power and fuel mileage and also lower exhaust emissions through a more complete combustion.

Lucas Fuel Treatment is formulated for both gasoline and diesel engines, carbureted or fuel injected. It gives your fuel system what it really needs - a blend of super slick oils and additives with a high detergent action that allows the engine to operate at maximum efficiency. Also, it cleans and lubricates the carburetor and injectors and causes the fuel to burn more thoroughly for increased power and less fuel consumption. Lucas Fuel Treatment should definitely be used in vehicles that require leaded fuel because it actually replaces the benefits of lead in gasoline without causing harmful emissions. Use it to pass smog tests. Finally, it totally neutralizes the harmful effects of low sulfur diesel fuel.

Lucas Fuel treatment complies with the federal low sulfur content requirements for use in diesel motor vehicles and nonroad, locomotive and marine diesel equipment engines.

It's the little bottle in the middle that I would like to use. Look below for the technical specifications sheet and a MSDS.
Technical sheet: http://lucasoil.com/images/documents/TDS_Fuel-Treatment.pdf
MSDS: http://lucasoil.com/images/documents/SDS_Lucas-Fuel-Treatment.pdf
 

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GoreWound

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Dec 1, 2014
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I have no direct experience with this product, but in general anything that claims to increase your MPG is fake.
also a lot of the time there is ethanol in products like this, ethanol is not the best for two strokes.
 

Motor awesomeness

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Nov 3, 2014
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You are correct about the fake mileage boost GoreWound, but the carb and combustion chamber will get cleaned over time if used at every fillup. The product also claims that it will neutralize bad fuel. Lucas has another product that stabilizes ethanol blended fuel that will slow down fuel system corrosion and will make gas lubricate
 

Slogger

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Sep 8, 2014
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Late in the fall I added a little 'Sea Foam' to my gas to stabilize it in case it sat til spring.
Riding it around, it seems to run well, no probs from the sea foam.
It helps with carbon build up and gum from gas.
 

2door

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Sep 15, 2008
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My first question would be why do you think you need this additive? If you're running a 16:1 fuel/oil ratio then you will see some build-up on the piston and rings. Drop that ratio down and you shouldn't see so much carbon.

I've used Lucas products in my cars, in particular their fuel injector/system cleaner and it is a good product. Nevertheless I don't see any real advantage to using it in a little carbureted 2 stroke. Certainly the claims of "more power/MPG" sound impressive but I doubt you're going to notice any difference. In addition the product you pictured is formulated to clean injectors, not carbon build up inside the engine.

However, if you try it and it seems to work for you, let us know. We all learn something every day.

Tom
 
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Motor awesomeness

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Nov 3, 2014
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I'm just like to try new things. The Lucas product will stabilize good fuel and neutralize bad fuel. It will also clean the carb out over time, while making the fuel lubricate better than it already is. And a bonus when read the tech specs: it is safe substitute for lead since it contains a upper cylinder lubricant which is what the stupid EPA took out of fuel in the 70s. For everyone who lived in the 50s and 60s know that the old leaded stuff lasted longer than today's fuel. Same thing with diesel, they took out the sulfar which made diesel lubricate very well. This product is supposed to restore the lubricity of the fuel. I'm just wondering if this additive will work since I might need to richen the amount of oil so the motor won't seize under load and everyone knows that if the motor is under huge load, it wears faster and requires more lubrication to operate.
 

Trey

$50 Cruiser
Jan 17, 2013
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Where cattle outnumber people 3 to 1.
I know that sea foam motor treatment works as a effective 2 stroke additive, but what about Lucas fuel system cleaner aka tune up in a bottle
I am not known for being a 2-stroke guy, so keep that in mind.
I do agree with you that SeaFoam is effective. It cleans the fuel system, lubricates the engine and keeps my fuel lines from freezing. Everything Lucas claims, plus some maybe ;) If I feel like adding a little more, for a "better" clean once in a while, I do. There have never been any adverse effects. Likewise if I add none for a while.
That's alot from some hoo-do juice. What are you looking to get from the Lucas? (Their tech sheet does sound good!)
 
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FFV8

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Oct 29, 2013
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Chainsaws run at full load most of the time. This why it is important to adjust the mixture screws any time you change fuel mixtures, altitudes, climates, etc.

A little four stroking at max rpm unloaded is usually good, keeps the mixture rich enough at load in the cut.

Lucas fuel additive is oily. Nothing wrong with that. Don't reduce the manufacturer's recommended oil ratio. I would not add more than 1/2 ounce of Lucas per gallon of fuel. On an engine with a lot of hours, it may give a little better ring seal.

Here is some more info:

http://motorbicycleracing.com/2-stroke-oils.html

.
 

mapbike

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2010
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Lucas has no ethanol in it and is actually and excellent product, and in a vehicle that has fuel system issues a good cleaning can boost performance and thus fuel economy.

Now all this said, I see zero benefit from using Lucus fuel treatment in one of these little 2 smokers.

Only thing I ever put in my fuel is a little additive that claims to stop the negative effects of gasoline that has ethanol in it.

With all things being right and with using good fuel and a quality 2 stroke oil I see no reason to use any other additives other than something to reduce or eliminate the negative effects of ethanol in the fuel.

I will also say that since I know first hand that Lucas makes very good products I don't think adding a tad to the mix is gonna hurt a thing, it is possible that it could offer some type of benefit over time.
 
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maniac57

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Oct 8, 2011
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Lucas is one of the very few additive companies I actually endorse from personal experience. Some of their products are a bit silly, but nothing they make is a waste of cash.
I'm with Tom on this one though...I see no point in using additives on such a mild engine.
But if you wish to, Lucas is a good brand to use.
The only additives I ever use are:
Sta-bil fuel treatment for long term storage and low use engines
Seafoam fuel treatment for cleaning
Restore oil additive for old sloppy engines to improve compression and ring seal (4 strokes only)
Lucas viscosity improver oil additive (the one you see in the little hand-cranked gears display at the parts store) in ANY performance four stroke.
 

Motor awesomeness

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Nov 3, 2014
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So here's what I'm getting
1: it's a good product
2: there will be little effect
3: what do I want to get out of the additive.

I want to use it to keep carbon in control, a bit more lube since the Lucas is a upper cylinder lube thus making gasoline lubricate better when it mixed with the 2 stroke oil. I want the motor to last a LOOOOOONNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGG time using it all year if I can. I'm also hoping good speed too, thinking of going 25-35 mph maybe more.
 

Trey

$50 Cruiser
Jan 17, 2013
1,432
5
0
Where cattle outnumber people 3 to 1.
I think SeaFoam will give you all that. Of course, we all have our favorite snake oils! Let us know what you decide.
You might even take down your carb, snap pics, and repeat after a couple hundred miles or something. Could be interesting...
 

Motor awesomeness

New Member
Nov 3, 2014
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Yes, seafoam gives all that, but I want to use additives for cars so if I need a additive and seafood is inaccessible, I can use stuff I buy at the gas station and use like STP, Lucas, etc.
 

mapbike

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2010
5,502
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Central Area of Texas
Seafoam makes a good product but the Lucas is a better upper cylinder lube, Seafoam is kinda like Berrymans B-12 just maybe a little better.

The Lucas product you listed here does the cleaning plus add an extra lube.

I'm not sure any noticeable longer engine lifespam will ever be noticed by using any of these products in these little 2 stroke engines, Id probably add an extra cap of 2 stroke oil to my mix if I was putting an additive like that in my fuel just to make sure I wasn't diluting my oil fuel mix any.
 

maniac57

Old, Fat, and still faster than you
Oct 8, 2011
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If upper cylinder wear is your fear, add some Marvel Mystery Oil to your pre-mix ratio.
It's another great product I forgot to mention.
I always use it on car engines that have been sitting a long time to help free things up.
Plus it smells awesome.
 

Davezilla

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Mar 15, 2014
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Yes.. marvel mystery oil is another great product that works as advertised... I use it to free up stuck lifters and a little bit in the fuel will help keep the internals clean.

Also, check what all is in your favorite 2 cycle oil as most the good ones will have top cylinder lune and fuel stabilizers in them already so there's less need for other additives.

Other additives I keep in the shop are stabil, sea foam, and heet. Heet is basically methanol and it can be used to boost octane and has a cooling effect when injected but needs to be mixed and used the same day, and thrown out at the end of the day, then purge the fuel system, this stuff is mega corrosive because it can attract water so well from the air. The mainnuse for heet is to get moisture out of the fuel... by absorbing it, but it does have some nice side effects performancewise. Just use heet wisely if used at all, it can hurt you.

I'm not a big fan of additives because most the better oils nowadays have these ingredients in them, but the Lucas stuff your looking at is good for what it does.
 

mapbike

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2010
5,502
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Central Area of Texas
Yes.. marvel mystery oil is another great product that works as advertised... I use it to free up stuck lifters and a little bit in the fuel will help keep the internals clean.

Also, check what all is in your favorite 2 cycle oil as most the good ones will have top cylinder lune and fuel stabilizers in them already so there's less need for other additives.

Other additives I keep in the shop are stabil, sea foam, and heet. Heet is basically methanol and it can be used to boost octane and has a cooling effect when injected but needs to be mixed and used the same day, and thrown out at the end of the day, then purge the fuel system, this stuff is mega corrosive because it can attract water so well from the air. The mainnuse for heet is to get moisture out of the fuel... by absorbing it, but it does have some nice side effects performancewise. Just use heet wisely if used at all, it can hurt you.

I'm not a big fan of additives because most the better oils nowadays have these ingredients in them, but the Lucas stuff your looking at is good for what it does.

I use Heet in my pop can stoves, works better than Denatured Alcohol....

I'm also a fan of Marvel Mystery Oil, like maniac said, the smell is awesome, I always add some to the gas for my tillers and riding mowers as an upper cylinder lube, I have added a tad to my smoker premix a few times also, I dont think it makes much difference I just like it so I use a little in my bike tanks now and then.

a dab of regular ole ATF makes a good fuel conditioner also, aa lot of truckers used to use it instead of the high dollar diesel fuel treatment and said it actually worked better for keeping things clean.

The ATF mixed with a little acetone makes an excellent bore cleaner and lube for firearms, I keep a can mixed up all the time.
 

Davezilla

New Member
Mar 15, 2014
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Atf is also an excellent cleaner if you got something caked with grease oil mess like a bracket that's been subject to years of oil leaking and road grime.... that kind of stuff... soak in Atf overnight. And the stuff comes right off... great for getting sludge out of an engine too.

Another excellent cleaner is wd40 ... I use it to keep the cast aluminum parts on the Harley spotless clean and new looking... a toothbrush and wd40 will get even the nastiest looking cast parts looking great. Wd40 also works wonders for getting rid of decalogue residue or gum in hair or carpet....
 

2door

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Sep 15, 2008
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Not many left today but when we used to use real magnesium rims on our race cars we always sprayed them with WD to keep them shiny. Magnesium will darken and tarnish almost over night but WD kept them pretty for race days.

ATF: Try it as a hand cleaner if your hands are greasy from dirty work. It will usually clean better than most commercial hand cleaners.

When I was into R/C planes I used ATF to protect the engines after a day of flying. Drain the fuel, squirt in a spoonfull of tranny fluid and spin the prop a few times. The engine would never 'gum up' even if not run for weeks or months.

My apologies to the OP. We sort of got off topic but did inject some useful info that others might find useful.

Tom