Motorized Bicycle Engine Kit Forum  

Sponsors



Go Back   Motorized Bicycle Engine Kit Forum > Motorized Bicycle > Board Trackers and Vintage Motorized Bicycles

Board Trackers and Vintage Motorized Bicycles Vintage enthusiasts share your board trackers and other vintage motorized bicycles ideas, builds and replicas here

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1051  
Old 02-15-2017, 07:17 AM
Ludwig II's Avatar
Ludwig II Ludwig II is online now
Motorized Bicycle Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 4,485
Default Re: Old Guys Simplex moto-peddle bike

You were concerned about the lack of suspension at the back. I wouldn't bother, it introduces problems. Currently you can run the load from the back of the sidecar to within inches of the back wheel. A swing arm means you bolt to the frame and load up a hinge that is meant to work vertically with additional side loads. Plunger suspension retains the best load path, but the bike wheel will try to lean over when you corner. Rigid and a comfy seat should be fine.
Reply With Quote
  #1052  
Old 02-15-2017, 08:58 AM
indian22's Avatar
indian22 indian22 is online now
Motorized Bicycle Elite Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 941
Default Re: Old Guys Simplex moto-peddle bike

Ludwig your last two posts contained some gems of insight into the dynamics encountered with a sidecar. The bikes rear suspension, if any, does introduce complexities of design which a hardtail layout avoids.

You also clarified a question I had about load balance with your, inside the tire patch triangle explanation; especially when coupled with the 25 percent of wheelbase ahead of the rear axle load placement rule of thumb you expressed earlier. Properly settling the longitudinal balance, as well as keeping the center of gravity as low as is practical in daily driving, are important. You pointed to all these elements in your posts. Keeping the whole affair lite and robust is also kept in mind.

I'm also consdering using elastic suspension to cushion the shell connection to frame.

How important do you regard the outrigger wheel suspension? I'd like to avoid the mistake of overbuilding just because I can and the added compexities would be cool. Safety coupled with vintage style, simple design and dependability for around town transportation are my primary goals. Rick C.
Reply With Quote
  #1053  
Old 02-15-2017, 09:41 AM
Ludwig II's Avatar
Ludwig II Ludwig II is online now
Motorized Bicycle Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 4,485
Default Re: Old Guys Simplex moto-peddle bike

Having anything more than some sort of bump stop introduces roll. I'd only go as far as a small buffer just to take the worst of any bangs out of it. This is only a personal choice, I'd advise experimentation to find what satisfies you. You will notice that a lot of the classic sidecars were on hung on rigid chassis, and they were held in place by various takes on springing.

Watsonian had the strange Wobble Wheel. This article describes it. What it did seems to have spread impacts over longer duration, so reducing severity.

http://reddevilmotors.blogspot.co.uk...a10-combo.html
Reply With Quote
  #1054  
Old 02-15-2017, 05:27 PM
indian22's Avatar
indian22 indian22 is online now
Motorized Bicycle Elite Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 941
Default Re: Old Guys Simplex moto-peddle bike

Ludwig thanks for the link, that's an interesting site and what a great combination the A 10 makes with that boat bow side car. Fifties and Thirties together works well with those two.
The wobble system seems to be a forerunner of the elastic seat post that's gained populatity with the mountainbike crowd and actually works quite well as a saddle shock, increasing the duration of the shock load in two planes vertically and horizontally, but the distance actually moved in either plane is miniscule. At any rate Ludwig I feel you're correct on the analysis of shocks and feel I'll end up with bump stops and elastics for the shell.

What do you guys think about down riggers on such a light duty rig, if I decide to go to a traditional rigid frame...overkill? Rick C.
Reply With Quote
  #1055  
Old 02-15-2017, 05:44 PM
dogcatcher dogcatcher is offline
Motorized Bicycle Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Texas
Posts: 38
Default Re: Old Guys Simplex moto-peddle bike

Here is a link to a Lambretta sidecar discussion. http://www.lambrettaclubusa.net/foru...ecar-mounting/

Scroll down to where the pics are, to next to the last pic where you get the bottom view of the scooter and the side car mounts. I am beginning to think we are over analyzing the problems that a sidecar can create.
Reply With Quote
  #1056  
Old 02-15-2017, 06:39 PM
dogcatcher dogcatcher is offline
Motorized Bicycle Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Texas
Posts: 38
Default Re: Old Guys Simplex moto-peddle bike

Or maybe a 2 wheel drive sidecar conversion. http://www.oldtimergarage.eu/catalog...oducts_id=4367
Reply With Quote
  #1057  
Old 02-16-2017, 08:54 AM
indian22's Avatar
indian22 indian22 is online now
Motorized Bicycle Elite Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 941
Default Re: Old Guys Simplex moto-peddle bike

Thanks for the two links. I've never owned a Lambretta or Vespa scooter, but some friends did and they were much better engineered machines than my Cushman.
The Cozy car mount shown is pretty simple. I took time to read the posts associated to the sidecar option and they were similar in content to what I've run into on other car installs...not very encourageing. Most of the negitivity was in the riding experience. I hope to avoid having to post similar observations after completion through a good understanding of what has been successful in the past.
In defence of the Cozy setup the manufacturer had almost no choice of how or where to place mounts on the little scooter "frame" and I use the term frame in the weakest context. Not much room or heavy material to fit or secure to and next to no room for fore and aft adjustment. They were forced to make do with what was there. My Simplex, on the hand, has a true duplex frame built of the best tube steel available, and most of it is accessable for utilization with good room for load adjustment. It's apples and oranges compared to the Lambretta design and materials when it comes to a side chair mounting platform.
I am and will continue to "over think" this part of my Simplex Copper Gator build, learning as much as possible first in order to make a "simple" design work well. At this point I'd have to admit favoring a damped hinge frame connection over a completely rigid, but also incorporating a very simple to fabricate lock to secure the hinge converting to a fully rigid mount. This would allow me to fully test and adjust each design to find the setup that feels best to me.
I'm in no special hurry to begin building, but will have a well researched design in mind when I do.Thanks again for the interest and input. Rick C.
Reply With Quote
  #1058  
Old 02-17-2017, 07:09 AM
indian22's Avatar
indian22 indian22 is online now
Motorized Bicycle Elite Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 941
Default Re: Old Guys Simplex moto-peddle bike

I put in some enjoyable time working on the Harley Peashooter yesterday mainly adjusting and securing, but also worked on the engine case some as I continue to cultivate a vintage look with the seventies era Honda design motor to better coincide with twenties and thirties type styling. I fully understand that showing bits and pieces as I build can be hard to follow and visualize as a completed unit, 'cause it's at times also difficult for me and some of my ideas just don't work for me at all, others only work when coupled with the completed bike. It's not a precise process I follow, more like this follows that...Rick C.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 0216171540-960x1280.jpg (318.4 KB, 15 views)
Reply With Quote
  #1059  
Old 02-17-2017, 08:20 PM
indian22's Avatar
indian22 indian22 is online now
Motorized Bicycle Elite Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 941
Default Re: Old Guys Simplex moto-peddle bike

We're having some great weather in the seventies and conducive to all kinds of outdoor activity including some work on the Harley. I replaced some more Ace no grade bolts with graded stock cut to proper lengths, I still have a half dozen left to change out.
I also took the tank off to remove the petcock that broke off in the fuel tank bung...came right out without a fight. I replaced with a stainless petcock this time.
Remounted tank and engine cover, along with shift lever and called it a day.
Took a nice ride on the mountain bike, life's good! Rick C.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 0217171649-960x1280.jpg (462.8 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg 0217171650-960x1280.jpg (454.7 KB, 15 views)
Reply With Quote
  #1060  
Old 02-18-2017, 12:07 PM
indian22's Avatar
indian22 indian22 is online now
Motorized Bicycle Elite Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 941
Default Re: Old Guys Simplex moto-peddle bike

Hard to believe I'm still waiting on parts mainly fasteners and connectors. I need to rewire the engine electrical, connect the fuel system, hookup the front brake and complete the bolt replacement, then locktite everything and I can start with some test rides...the rest is just cosmetic adjustments till it suits me. The holdup is one CdI plug, a Sturmey brake cable pinch bolt and a fuel line adaptor, plus a few brass acorns that will come in today. I'm that close to riding the Peashooter and with a ten day forecast of sixties and seventies I hope to put some hours in on the road next week. Rick C.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 0217171650a-960x1280.jpg (540.7 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg 0217171650b-960x1280.jpg (543.0 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg 0217171650c-960x1280.jpg (511.7 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg 0217171651-960x1280.jpg (552.9 KB, 13 views)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:39 PM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
MotorBicycling.com