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deacon · Aug 13, 2009

Okay I have finally tested my DIY friction drive and come to the conclusion it just won't do. I think it is a manufacturing flaw but it just doesn't have either the speed or the torque needed. It should have more speed than it does but it just doesn't.

So I do have an 8" scooter wheel coming that will be a twin to the one I run now on a 350 motor with more or less satisfactory results. It is slow but has a lot of torque which is really more important to me.

I also have an 18tooth sprocket for the motor on the way. It should be here tomorrow. That should help the speed a little. I also thinking I might go with a direct power and flush the controller.

I took it off last night but couldn't do a test I burned up a 15amp switch. I think I am going to get a 40a relay like one of the other members is using. It sounds like a good idea and would give me more amps for the torque I think. It seems the controller limits the available amps where as the switch allows to motor to draw all it will draw.

I know it's not good for the motor but the are pretty cheap and I don't know how long one will run.

deacon · Aug 14, 2009

I wanted to test my trailer since I did some changes, so I rode the 350watt bike that I use for my trips to and from the part for my morning walk. I know I said that already. I ran the test track two miles under various condition. A couple of short but steep hills, a couple of mild inclines and the ups and downs they cause gives the bike and trailer a good test.

I had a little more tension to start than I usually have so the bike hummed. I left it right from the charger which should be about 13.25 no more than that for sure. I came home with the battery at 12.78 So I estimate useful distance on the 7.5 ah pack at 4 to 5 miles.

I think this one might be the ideal helper motor. I want to try the 500 watt before I declare the 350 winner but it is going to be hard to beat. As a motorized bike the 500 watt might be better in that it will keep the power up longer on the hills, I think. But purely as a helper motor the 350 is nice. In the two miles I rode I was on the pedals no more than fifty yards.

Part of the reason I pedal so little with the 350 is that it has the kiddie chain ring. It is impossible to catch the freewheel, unless the bike is dragging. One day I might check to see if I have a larger chainring around. My new motor won't get here till Tuesday, I should be really bored by then.

deacon · Aug 15, 2009

I went to a couple of yard sales today and bought a 20 bike for my new build of a second friction drive ryno addition. (one big scooter wheel on top of a bike wheel). I bought a big frame and a laid back seat. I came home and put an old suspension fort I had on it. I also had to change out the handle bars. Then I found that for some reason, known only to god, it had a full sized crank set. I had to change it to a small short throw one from a kids 20" bike. If I hadn't, I probably would have hit myself in the chin with a knee as I pedaled.

Then I added a couple of inches to the laid back seat post. Just to get a little more height. Had to redo the chain with a punch and pliers. pumped up the tires and then added a front brake which was no simple task because I used a front end with shackles to raise the front of the bike.

I'll make some pictures tonight maybe. It needs paint and a motor but I think it is going to work okay. Oh the bike cost me four dollars I had all the parts laying around to rebuild it which I totally did.

deacon · Aug 15, 2009

I shot some pics of the bike before I shot it with some flat black on the seat post the front fork and handlebars. I forgot to shoot the kickstand but I'll get it one day maybe.

above is a shot of the shacked front suspension fork. It raised the front about two inches.

yes it's crappy welding but at least now it holds for while it was a hit or miss whether it would hold or not.

Yes the bike looks weird but Hey I'm weird to...It's going to be interesting to see if the weld on the seat post holds or not. I drove the additional piece down about three inches with a sledge hammer. It might turn but I don't think it will break off.

If this doesn't work out I have almost nothing in the bike and I get a couple of good wheels at least. But I think it will do quite well for the 500watt friction drive motor. I will probably junk out the 24" bike I had been using to experiment with.

deacon · Aug 17, 2009

There is always a lot of theory talk which to me is confusing. I took a shot at a combination of motor controller and fuse today. I had a 350 watt motor on a rhino bike (the bike in my avatar) It does really well, but I wanted to see how much more I could squeeze out of it with a 36volt battery pack.

I tried to do this with a 500 watt motor with more or less the same set up I used today. That day it was on a pusher bike which shouldn't really make a difference. In that configuration it blew the same fuse twice in a single ride. So I pretty sure this combination will NOT work with a 500watt motor. I didn't try a larger fuse for fear of damaging the controller.

However here is what I used... A 350 watt motor.... a 40amp auto fuse....a 24volt 500 watt controller.... 36v power supply... It ran very nice.

Why all this you ask.... Well the 350 watt motor is easier to find and less expensive.... The 24v 500 watt controller is also easy to find ..... The auto 40amp fuse is an off the shelf item. If you are buying it and don't have it one hand, you might not save much going this route but it does work nicely.

deacon · Aug 17, 2009

Since I'm still waiting for a new wheel to make the big fast rhino bike, I decided to try the 350 watt controller with the 350 watt motor. I made sure I had a 40 amp auto parts store fuse before I tried it. I hooked it to my 36volt battery pack.

The bike ran at least as good, if not better than it did with the 500 watt controller. So it seems even the cheapest controller might work for over powering the bikes. The controller I used this time cost nine bucks on Ebay but shipping was as much and it came from King Kong or some other Chinese place. But it worked just fine and man that bike hums with either controller. I took it to the shopping center which usually causes me to climb a hill that is still a challenge with a 350 watt bike. It did magnificently.

deacon · Aug 19, 2009

here are pics of the latest Rhino bike. Rhino 2 the 2nd story...

It has the equivalent of a 750 watt motor (20amp running at 36v).. It is running a heavy duty 24volt controller off 36v battery pack.

Performance, this bike will climb a moderate hill while gaining speed. Pulls the long hills with no pedaling and does with with power. I rode it three miles with about half a volt drop in power on the batteries. From 13.25 to 12.75 isn't to bad in 3 miles and some of that was with undue strain due to the need for better adjustments that I just finished. It will probably do a little better on the next test.

http://i30.tinypic.com/14lnf4y.jpg
http://i29.tinypic.com/2rm8iz8.jpg
http://i27.tinypic.com/wu07jd.jpg

geeksquid · Aug 25, 2009

Great rig there. Many years ago I used to see a guy buzzing around with a rig like that with a Briggs motor and a wheelbarrow tire for the roller. Rubber to rubber should be good.

geeksquid · Aug 25, 2009

Deacon, I saw a post that was a bit negative about goldenmotor.com but I checked them out and they sure have a good selection of goodies for a tinkerer. I kinda like those scooter wheels with the hub motors.

deacon · Aug 25, 2009

I have now gone all the way back to the very beginning of my bike building. A few minor improvements but the same basic design.

I had a rhino bike support come loose today and the chain jumped off about ten times before I could get home to fix it. I am trying to see if I can build a direct drive friction motor. I have it almost ready to test. Tomorrow I will know.

deacon · Aug 26, 2009

The direct drive experiment was a failure. Oh I had it running it just wasn't as good a bike as the rhino. It has less torque for some reason. I think it is the lack of the pneumatic tire. Anyway I ruined the 350 watt motor which was kind of the point LOL. I had to buy the 500 watt motor because a man can not live with one bike alone.

kevyleven007 · Aug 27, 2009

you crack me up man!lol.just smart enough to be dangerous I'd say laff

deacon · Aug 28, 2009

Why thank you.... It my one great accomplishment in life. And my friends said I would never amount to anything. ROFL

deacon · Sep 2, 2009

Okay I did the 'over power the bike' thing for a few weeks now and I have decided to try going back to the recommended voltage. Yes there was a definite speed improvement and even better torque I think. The downside was of course more weight and bulk to lug around on the bike. Range did not increase as I had hoped. Speed isn't really an issue with me but torque is. I hope the torque won't suffer too much because I like that part.

Why am I going back. I'm not sure to be honest. I think I have a damaged bearing due to the chain being adjusted too tight and the higher voltage forcing the motor to run in a bind. Most likely it overheated big time. So I have new motors on the way and I think I'm going to run them was 24v as they are designed to run. Still it was fun to run the 500 watt at 700 watt for a while it was the cat's meow

deacon · Sep 3, 2009

I thought you might like to see the change I made to one of the rhino bikes while I was waiting for a new motor. It has a 20" frame... a 24inch suspension front fork... a 16" front wheel. I have no idea how it will work out. Just have to wait and see.

I do like to try different configurations.

deacon · Sep 4, 2009

I scrapped out the bike with the bad motor. I saved the frame of the motor but everything else except the wheels got tossed. I have a couple of more powerful motors on the way. One of them arrived yesterday and I got to test ride it today. That things hums.

I have two more just like it on the way from all electronics. I'm not sure what I will be doing with them but I'll find something to do. I highly recommend this motor of course I have only used it an hour so far,24VDC 600W MOTOR, 15T W/CLUTCH | AllElectronics.com

I am running it with a 500w 24volt controller at 36volts I have no idea how this will work out but I'll let you know.

deacon · Sep 19, 2009

After fooling with the chain drive I went back and rebuilt a rhino as my spare bike. I did some changing around of the bike frame. In the process I damaged the throttle. It jammed open on me during the test run. I managed to stop the bike and get it back home where I took off all the electronics and put on a 20amp household wall switch. It works just fine. You can't do a pedal assist at like 10% power but to run it mostly at wot it works just fine.

I can baby one by just barely running it as fast as I can pedal and get twice the range but If I am going to run it wide open anyway the switch works just fine. I might could even do pedal assist by fewer pulses. I didn't try that frankly but I will one day soon.

deacon · Sep 19, 2009

Since I am running an on/off switch from the electrical dept of the home depot, and since I have melted the smaller version of the switch, and since I have had two throttle lockup in the wide open throttle position, I decided I needed a dead man switch. One that could be used if all else failed. One the would not melt down to the always on position. What I did was to make a brake in the battery circuit. I twisted in a wire to complete the circuit but left a big loop in it. With what I hope is a minimum of effort I can pull the wire out leaving the circuit wide open. That is my if all else fails switch.

If I ever have to pull that switch, I will be pushing the bike home.

deacon · Sep 23, 2009

Some things I have been up to that might be of interest to ebike builders.

I used the rear wheel off a kid's 12.5 coaster bike as the rhino motor drive wheel. I wasn't sure how it would do but it did just fine so far. I rode it down the test track twice. The actual bike wheel is a bit stiff, but it came from the thrift store and has probably been sitting around a while. If it doesn't get better after a few more miles, I'll try loosening it a little.

But the story is those bikes are easy to find for under ten bucks at the thrift stores. Buy two and use the front wheels for a trailer or buy one and just strip off the rear wheel. I attached a #25 sprocket to the wheel but you could just put a bike sprocket on the e'motor and do just as well. It would probably run much faster that way.

The other thing I think I learned is that two old 7ah batteries in parallel are better than one new 12ah batter. I read them after my test ride and the 12v 12ah was down to 12.95 after a mile. The 7ah were 13.5 which is the newer battery and 13.3 which is the old one that drains more quickly.

I am not using a controller on either bike I test rode today. The 12.5 bike wheel might be a little better performer than the 10" scooter wheel. I doubt that there is much difference. I just wanted to see if it would work and it does.

deacon · Sep 27, 2009

I switched my best bike to a direct on/off switch and immediately blew a fuse. I almost switched it back to a controller until I realized that I had max tension on the drive wheel. I dumped a little air from the drive wheel, then tested it again. It did just fine. It was on a start up that the fuse blew. The motor needed to be able to turn the wheel a little I guess.

Anyway it seems to be working now. Tomorrow morning I'm going to ride it down to the auto parts store for box of fuses. I am down to just one spare fuse for three bikes, that is not enough.

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