Ridin the ebike fall/winter edition

GoldenMotor.com

deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
8,114
9
0
north carolina
Since this part of the forum is less used, and since I do ride ebikes exclusively, I thought it might be a good time to start documenting how we use the bikes. No not some generalize summary but a day to day chronicle of what we ebikers do with them.

Today, I got my battery trailer unplugged from the charger hooked it to what used to be my faux trike, and took off for the mall. The mall is only a mile away, but it is on a heavily traveled road. The first half mile is through my neighborhood streets so I kept the speed down to a little over what a well conditioned bike rider might do, about ten miles an hour or so.

Since I intentionally didn't leave my house until ten a.m. the roads were pretty empty. When I turned onto one of the main drags in town, I had to go about a quarter mile. I did a right turn onto the road but swung into the left lane at the left edge of it. To give the cars a chance to pass me on the right. I turned left after that quarter mile and it was safer to get on over from the start than to try to cross two lanes of traffic while it flowed around me.

I made the left turn on a red light since my bike will not trip the leading green light. Another tenth of a mile or so and I was in the parking lot. It was about that far again to the entrance. I parked the bike beside the handicapped space. They always have enough room left over at the end of the row for a bike.

Inside I walked three complete laps (Up and down) of the mall for a 2.25 mile walk on hard concrete. I passed some early morning shoppers but not many. The local mall is dying. It started before the recession but the downturn has acerbated the situation.

I spoke to the lady from the salvation army who was selling Christmas card to raise funds. Then I rode the bike home. The ebike was a joy to ride compared to the gasoline bike I used to ride. At full throttle the bike is about 3/4 the power of the gas bike, but it is sooo much easier to start at a stoplight, especially going uphill. Seems like most of the stoplights in town have an uphill start. I know it can't be much more than half, but they all seemed to when I rode the gas bike.

I got home and found that I had lots of energy left. I should have, the total ride was about two miles. I was pulling a trailer with the equivalent of a 19ah battery pack. I think this might become part of my fall/winter routine.

So where did you go on your ebike today and in detail please. It helps me find more efficient ways to plan my ebike trip. I wish, instead of HIGH POINT NC, I lived in FLATVILLE. If I did the ebike would not be so challenging to use for real life things.
 
Last edited:

jdcburg

New Member
Jul 9, 2009
150
0
0
massachusetts
OK Deacon I’ll bite. I took my 350 watt fwd 3 speed to work today. Tuesdays I start later (8 AM) so I can ride in the daylight. It was cold (28 F) but luckily no wind. It’s about 7.5 miles, some up but mostly down and level. Takes me about 40 minutes. I pedal a lot but use lots of e power toward the end so I’m not too sweaty when I get to work. I bring a 6 amp charger and charge the 2 12v 12ah SLAs at work. they take about 1 ½ - 2 hrs to charge. It was a short day – we finished about 1:30. Then I rode to my other job to check my schedule. It’s about 8 miles, mostly level but bucking a headwind all the way. It was warmer (48) but with the headwind I’m glad I was pedaling to keep warm. Still fingers and toes were chilly. After a few minutes there, I rode to the barber shop and waited for 20-30 minutes for my turn. I was concerned about waiting because I was leaving the batteries resting discharged for that time, which they say is bad for SLAs. It’s about 2 ½ miles from my second job to home, mostly uphill, and the barber shop is about halfway. When I got home, the batteries read 12.10 and 12.20, so I guess they weren’t totally discharged. I put the charger right on them and they should be just about charged up by now - jd
 

deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
8,114
9
0
north carolina
they say 11.75 is where you need to get them onto a charger right away. They do say never leave them half charged but I think that is for like days not hours. Still I don't know any of that for sure. I charge mine everyday and leave them on the charger when they are finished.
 

deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
8,114
9
0
north carolina
I rode the ebike to the marina last night. I am still struggling with battery issues but that is covered in a different thread.

It was a nice day with just a slight chill. I took off and chose my route as carefully as I could. Even so there were still a lot of steep hills along the way. My wife followed along after me to be sure that I made it okay. Being a woman, she informed me how great the bathrooms at the marina's guest house are.

Believe it or not there were fishermen out there. I was chilled from the bike ride so it made me cold just to look at them. I have found that a lightweight nylon shell, as the last piece of clothing, helps a lot with the bike wind. Mine is big enough so that I can wear all the layers I want under it.

All in all it was a nice 6mile ride.
 

deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
8,114
9
0
north carolina
It was an interesting day today. I rebuilt my trailer since i have decided to use one at 24volts as well as the 36volt one. So I built on it all evening yesterday. i took off for what should have been a routine test.

On the first try the rhino drive fell off. Well not really it has a three point hook up. One of the points failed and it rolled off the back of the bike, but not quite off completely.

Try two the trailer which I had welded together came unhooked. It didn't exactly pass me going down hill but it did get dragged along by the power cord. probably not too good for it. I also had to put the trailer on the bike seat and push the while thing home. I truly was upset by that part of it. It was my own fault. I know better than to trust my welds. I almost always run bolt through a joint as a backup against weld failure. I have discovered that I can weld like materials but different types of steel do not hold for me for some reason. Actually the reason they didnt hold was that I didn't leave any play for the trailer and the stress was just too much on the welds that I made.

On the next attempt the trailer was just all over the place. I went through and simplified everything about the trailer. I completely rebuilt the rebuilt trailer. I went back to the very basic design with only one modification. Instead of attaching to one side of the bike, it attaches to the center of the bike on a u shaped hitch i made.

I test rode it and the trailer seems to work okay but it needs more tension on the rhino drive. That is a rainy day, tomorrow's, project. I should change the rear tire as well. I started with a used tire and have worn all the tread off it with the wheel on wheel drive. One thing I do have is plenty of used tires. I even have a couple of new ones laying about.
 
Last edited:

deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
8,114
9
0
north carolina
So it's raining today. Not the best time to ride an ebike. that being the case, I decided to make a non essential repair to the 24v rhino bike.

I replaced the rear tire. Something that could have been a real pain, but turned out to take no more than a half hour. You have to understand that the rear end of my bike has been bastardized to pull a trailer. All that extra metal is around the rear axle holder. It could have been an all day job. I promise you that if the day had been warm and sunny so that I could have ridden the bike, it would have taken a minimum of four hours to do the same thing.

It's just the perversity of riding a homemade ebike.
 

deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
8,114
9
0
north carolina
The test was inconclusive.

It looks as though the range is not effected by the voltage of the battery pack, when the correct controller is used. The 36volt setup has a slightly better performance, but not a huge amount better. The 36v's additional performance more than makes up for the additional weight of the third battery it seems.

However putting 36 volts through the 24volt controller gives a huge increase in speed and pull but eats into the battery life I think. It looks as though the compromise position is to use the 36v controller and the 36v pack. That makes it possible to pedal on the worst of hills and to coast it when it can.

I think that is the way to go. I am going to redo the frame of that bike, then put the 24v bike on the back burner I think. At least that is the plan at the moment.
 

deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
8,114
9
0
north carolina
I think as a final attempt to see what one of these rhino drives will do on a bike, I will buy a set of batteries to make one of my bikes 48v. I am in this mind set because I can buy a set of batteries in a package deal which almost gives me the forth one.

If I decide to do it, I have a bike with a big enough controller I think. I need to rebuild the trailer system anyway, since my last attempt at a trailer hitch filed miserably. I wonder what it will do since I have already learned that a higher voltage pushed through a small voltage controller gives more speed than the same voltage through a matched controller, it might just hum along. The weight of the trailer is an issue and I can not afford 6 or 7 hundred bucks for a set of lithium batteries.
 

deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
8,114
9
0
north carolina
I am trying to make hide or hair of this battery thing. It seems to me at the moment that the sla batteries have a reverse downward curve power band. In other words they release more power at the beginning of their drain then go down from there until there is almost nothing left to give.

So I have a high drain motor and controller on my regular bike and it does fine at first, but then goes to night soil after a couple of miles. I ran my regular bike five miles today with a 600 watt motor and a 500 watt controller. I am giving some serious thought to pulling my test bike's 36v 800 amp controller off and replacing it with my 24v 350 amp controller to see how it performs under the same conditions as the regular bike I rode today. It's a pretty easy route to duplicate so it should be an interesting comparison. If it drains at a more constant pace, it might be useful to know that.

At the moment I believe that the range/performance is in the controller. If I'm going to have a low performance bike after a couple of miles, I would just as soon have a low performance bike all along. That my friends might be why the stock bike motor is 250watt and no more than 450 watts. Okay I have talked myself into it.

I also bid on a controller that is about 400 watts I think. I should have somethings to make comparisons with soon. I really do want to get a handle on these batteries. More than just to say, I don't like ebikes because they performance is not up to gasoline standards.
 

deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
8,114
9
0
north carolina
I rode the two ebikes I have the same distance today with the same battery pack, the only difference was the wattage of the controller. I had to run the 350 watt wot most of the time to made the two mile ride possible. Even so there were moments when it was uncomfortable. Several as a matter of fact.

I rode the bike with the 500 watt controller at about half throttle but giving me the same speed as the slower 350 watt controller. The difference was that I called for max throttle at the times when the ride would have been uncomfortable with the 350 watt controller.

When I got back I found that the battery reserve was the same. So I ordered another of the 500 watt controllers from tnc. This is the controller that can also do the 36v pack even though it is not as efficient I think. Then again maybe it would be if I kept the speed down to a crawl.
 

deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
8,114
9
0
north carolina
If you have been around here long, you know that I have a shop full of parts left over from failed experiments. Some are there just because I got tired of the bike I built with them and moved on. Such was the case of the two 16" bike wheels mounted on a 15" wide axle. That assembly was left over from the faux trike I built. I stumbled (literally almost fell) over it last night. So today it is raining. It is a bad combination when it rains and I have excess parts handy. That happens most rainy spells.

I had to do a little wheel repair to tighten one of them up. That was a matter of robbing an axle and a few bearings from a wheel I was about to junk anyway. More spare parts and we all know parts is parts.

So I had two good wheels and an axle. The basket from the faux bike is now in pieces so I had to search for one I had used long ago. I found it hiding in a corner of the shop under an old tarp. No it wasn't neatly covered to preserve it. No the tarp was wadded up and laying over the basket. I looked and thought, then I thought and looked until I found a couple of pieces of metal which I could use to attach the basket to the axle securely.

Then came the trailer hitch issue. That always is an issue with me. More scrap metal and a little inventiveness and I had myself a finished trailer ready to test. Of course it is still raining so the test will have to wait a few days. It is big enough to carry a ton of batteries. I can make the 48 volt bike I have been toying with.

And I did all this using bits and pieces laying around. Best of all I found that I had no good 1/4" drill bits but I did have a whole lot of broken ones. So I used the end of a drill bit which I found superior to a whole drill bit. To bad I don't have a cheap source for two or three inch long drill bits.

By the way I stopped by the thrift shop Saturday and they are loaded with bicycles. They had a small 6 speed mountain bike. Just the thing for a rhino motor. Alas I promised my wife no more bikes so I had to let it go. The thing was only 14.99 with 25% off. It was very very hard to walk away from that, but I did and I'm probably a better man for it. The Guys a BA (bikeaholics Anonymous) would be so proud of me.
 
Last edited:

deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
8,114
9
0
north carolina
This is what the bike looks like now with the large trailer. It is suitable to carry a 36v battery pack, a small tool kit, and two bags of groceries. It should be a better alternative than walking to the store but just barely. It is also more stable than the bike alone is.


The trailer has a center tongue and the bike has a wrap around trailer hitch. The trailer has been tested only three miles but it seems to pull easy and straight.

Bye the Bye, I rode the Rhyno drive bike above on a wet road this morning and it did remarkable well maybe a little better than on a dry road. It slipped over the wheel but had enough friction to run at the same speed as it did when dry. I was shocked but pleased
 
Last edited:

deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
8,114
9
0
north carolina
I want to buy new batteries for the bike. I have a whole lot of batteries but I'm just wanting to get them setup better. So anyway I have this 36v super controller from TNC that will hold 48v and it is rated for 800 watts. I decided to reconfigure it for 48v just to test it. So this cold, cold morning I reconfigured a bike for it. I am chomping at the bit to do a test ride.

The problem is that it is 37degrees. The wind chill on a moving bike is probably going to be more like 25 degrees. I am so impatient that I am going to wait till it hits forty then I'm going to ride it anyway. I only want to do the one mile test track ride.

The pack measures 53v and the batteries are about 7ah but old so probably not quite that. One mile is probably going to be max and even then most of it will be on the bottom of the power curve. Still it should be interesting.
 

deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
8,114
9
0
north carolina
I"m not putting too much faith in the test today. I was using small ah batteries, 7ah, and it was dead cold. The bike, the motor, and the batteries had all been in the very cold shop overnight.

It ran really very nice for the first five minutes then it just kind of limped along. When I got back the batteries were very low. I let them sit an hour and they had revived quite a bit. I did decide that the difference between the 36v on a 24v controller and a 48v or a 36v controller is minimal. The 36/24 combo is almost too fast as it is. The 48 would be faster and even stronger on hills but the extra battery would be pretty inconvenient. I'm going to leave the spare bike set up that way but use the 36/24 combo for a while to see how it does.
 

deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
8,114
9
0
north carolina
I think it has been long enough since I promised my wife no new bikes for her to get over it. I have decided to re-place the hub motor on a bike to give it another try. Last night I found a front fork which will work with it . I installed it and feel pretty sure it will be okay. Problem is I have no bike frame for it, but I am going to pick one up at the thrift store soon. I looked today but they really didn't have anything that tripped my trigger.

I will probably wind up with a 20" coaster again, but I would kind of like something with a couple of gears this time. The hub motor would probably work best with a low and high gear at least. I really wanted to stick it on a rear suspension at least. The front fork it is in now is suspension. If I have to go with a hard tail that's okay too I guess. I would really go for a 24" full suspension mountain bike for sure.

I could always set the chain for the coaster size rear sprocket and just move the chain on the front sprocket for a couple of gears. It is my opinion that more than that is a bit of over kill on a motor bike. Not that I am an authority on that kind of thing.

I think I will hold off to see if one of those shows up at the thrift store in a 24" size before or right after Christmas.
 

deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
8,114
9
0
north carolina
I have this silly bike basket on the front forks of both my bikes. It's there in case I buy something while I'm out. I also have a 6v lantern at home. I think that if I ever want to ride the bike after dark for some unknow reason, I will just shove the lantern in the basket and lash it down.
 

deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
8,114
9
0
north carolina
My wife's grocery store (not that she owns it, but she probably could have if she had bought stock instead of food over the years) is across the street from the thrift store that has the largest, and least expensive bikes in town. While she went shopping, I went bike looking.

They have about fifteen bikes there. Most are pure junk, my kind of bike, but one was absolutely perfect, except it was a sissy bike. Now I have no problem with the step through frame, I actually prefer it. My problem is the color. The bike is two shades of pink. Even worse it has stickers all over it. Things like slumber party, instead of mountain fury that would be on it if it were a boys bike, are all over it.

I know, I can paint it, but the last one I painted is a nightmare. I have to touch it up almost every time I ride it. Cheap paint, and poor prep work. Plus the under color is girlie purple, yuck.

I am giving some serious thought to popping the rhino drive off my second bike and putting the hub on it. I really don't need two rhino drive bikes. I can pull the drive that is there, and put the hub wheel on it. It wouldn't be much trouble at all.

If I do that I wouldn't need a third bike. My wife would be happy, my shop would be happy, heck everyone would be happier. I have a couple of nasty rainy days ahead so why not. I am also buying some new batteries on ebay today, so I will have a set for it by the time I have it completed probably. I could also swap out the front end on the Rhyno I have as well. The bike I am going to destroy has a better front end.

I think I will do it. Thanks guys for talking me into it.
 
Last edited:

deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
8,114
9
0
north carolina
Im shocked... I got the bike converted to the hub without too much trouble it only took three hours. I checked to be sure the bike motor runs and it does. I had to lengthen the kickstand because the front wheel went from 20" to 26". The kick stand was a couple of inches too short. I welded on a bolt. I hope it lasts a while anyway.
 

deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
8,114
9
0
north carolina
I went into the unheated shop today... I had the front hub motor I re installed wrong. I realized it last night but waited until this morning to make the adjustment. I froze my rear off out there just doing a fifteen minute job. When I got back inside the house, and sat down with a cup of coffee, I realized how much better it is to be retired than to be working. Too bad I'm not young enough to enjoy it more.

I ordered my batteries for the hub motor so I am waiting for a chance to try it out on the road. The replacement controller is definitely a pedal first model. It wont even move the bike let alone me on it. It will however assist in movement once it is moving.

The rhino drive will start from dead zero, I am going to have to get used to pedal starting again. The reason I set this up was to test the efficiency of the hub motor against the rhino motor. I wish my hub was more powerful. I think that now it would be rated at about 350 watts and the rhino is about 750 watts I think. There is a whole lot of difference there. But I can run the rhino on low power i think and get a feel for the difference in range. At least I think I can.
 

deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
8,114
9
0
north carolina
During the last rainy spell, I took the Rhino drive off one of my bikes and put the hub motor (which I thought I hated) on it for something to do. Today it stopped raining and my new batteries arrived. I gave the hub motor a ride and found that I STILL hate it. I decided to just leave it on the bike I have it on now. If I ever get the wild hair to test it again, I won't have to tear up a bike to do it.

I rode the rhino I have left with 36v and 36ah battery pack. That thing will be a nice bike when I get the trialer hitch worked out. the trailer seemed to sway a little which made me nervous. I am going to work on that during the next rainly spell. It is happening tomorrow.

I also got my wife to give me a ride to the thrift store. They were having a sale today. I bought a 20" 6speed Gary Fisher bike for a whopping $6.50. I wanted to try mounting my motor onto a bike without having to modify it. I manged to make the drive system fit without changing anything in the rear. It still has it's 6speeds, and its V brakes.

I did have to put a real seat on it. I am going to have to move the controls around a little. I need to move the gears selector from one side to the other to make room for the throttle. I also have to put a trailer hitch on it.

I also need to decide what voltage I want to use. I can go 24, 36, 48 since the motor will do either and I have controllers that will work with all those. I have a couple of more days of playtime it seems.