Poll: price vs. availability
- Thread starter Creative Engineering
- Start date
You pioneers need to get together and put out the USA version of the China Girl kit. Make it kick ass and cost under $400.
I'm watching. You're certainly moving in the right direction. And I'm watching that site.
For the rest of you guys, get together on this project. We're not going to have little combustion engines for too many years longer. Let's make the best of it.
It'll be batteries soon.
I voted to pay a little more and get the part faster, I think waiting for 50 orders is the reason people get annoyed with waiting. My experience so far has been fine I have no problem waiting 2 weks for a custom part. I am not a machinest but isnt a cnc an automatic deal? Load the program, put in metal and it goes to work? so we are looking at materiel cost verses hand labor? You should definetly add some price to give you some profit. Have you thought of selling the cnc specs to people so they could take it to thier local shop to get one made.. I think you should apply for a patent on your stuff for sure. Its 3 am and im rambling. Keep at it Jim! a lot of guys here really applaud what you do!
CNC is not quite like that... pushing the button only part of the process it's not nearly that automated...
Well, I bet Jim's shop is (far) better than the CNC woodshop I worked in, but prep & finish work does consume a ridiculous amount of time, the program needs be written & rewritten, the machines themselves require a lot of setup and constant maintenance, heck - even loading it can be tricky depending on the object (remember we're dealing with extremely fine tolerances), most CNC machines can cut only one face at a time so each unit is a multiple stage project, sometimes requiring different machines & setups for different aspects of the object being made *shrug*
Granted, the shop I worked in was a bit of an abomination, but generally speaking CNC doesn't save labor so much as provide exacting uniformity... usually... IF you know what yer doing lol, My old shop didn't, they thought they could save time by pushing the machines faster, resulting in "corduroy" passes and lots of tedious finishwork - not something you can get away with at all with billet aluminum so... more time in the machine(s) and the progs that run them.
I'm ofc assuming that Jim's billet aluminum CNC setup and the somewhat primitive wood CNC I had to deal with are even vaguely similar, please correct me if I'm wrong
Well, I bet Jim's shop is (far) better than the CNC woodshop I worked in, but prep & finish work does consume a ridiculous amount of time, the program needs be written & rewritten, the machines themselves require a lot of setup and constant maintenance, heck - even loading it can be tricky depending on the object (remember we're dealing with extremely fine tolerances), most CNC machines can cut only one face at a time so each unit is a multiple stage project, sometimes requiring different machines & setups for different aspects of the object being made *shrug*
Granted, the shop I worked in was a bit of an abomination, but generally speaking CNC doesn't save labor so much as provide exacting uniformity... usually... IF you know what yer doing lol, My old shop didn't, they thought they could save time by pushing the machines faster, resulting in "corduroy" passes and lots of tedious finishwork - not something you can get away with at all with billet aluminum so... more time in the machine(s) and the progs that run them.
I'm ofc assuming that Jim's billet aluminum CNC setup and the somewhat primitive wood CNC I had to deal with are even vaguely similar, please correct me if I'm wrong
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I voted 'pay up if you can't wait'
paying extra for 'expedited' isn't unheard of
I am very happy with my sprocket and adapter
(I got lucky and ordered at the perfect time in the production schedule)
I showed your handiwork to a lot of people at the deathrace and they all loved it
perhaps stock stuff like the shimano cb adapter and sprockets, intakes,,,etc could be at the same rate/price and custom items should be priced accordingly
custom by definition is time-consuming and therefore costly
paying extra for 'expedited' isn't unheard of
I am very happy with my sprocket and adapter
(I got lucky and ordered at the perfect time in the production schedule)
I showed your handiwork to a lot of people at the deathrace and they all loved it
perhaps stock stuff like the shimano cb adapter and sprockets, intakes,,,etc could be at the same rate/price and custom items should be priced accordingly
custom by definition is time-consuming and therefore costly
BarelyAWake,CNC is not quite like that... pushing the button only part of the process it's not nearly that automated...
Well, I bet Jim's shop is (far) better than the CNC woodshop I worked in, but prep & finish work does consume a ridiculous amount of time, the program needs be written & rewritten, the machines themselves require a lot of setup and constant maintenance, heck - even loading it can be tricky depending on the object (remember we're dealing with extremely fine tolerances), most CNC machines can cut only one face at a time so each unit is a multiple stage project, sometimes requiring different machines & setups for different aspects of the object being made *shrug*
Granted, the shop I worked in was a bit of an abomination, but generally speaking CNC doesn't save labor so much as provide exacting uniformity... usually... IF you know what yer doing lol, My old shop didn't, they thought they could save time by pushing the machines faster, resulting in "corduroy" passes and lots of tedious finishwork - not something you can get away with at all with billet aluminum so... more time in the machine(s) and the progs that run them.
I'm ofc assuming that Jim's billet aluminum CNC setup and the somewhat primitive wood CNC I had to deal with are even vaguely similar, please correct me if I'm wrong
You are hereby informed that you will be given the product of your choice, at no charge, from our shop.
I have never read a more accurate description of how this all works...I could not have worded it better myself. Wood shop, metal shop...it's all the same hassle. There was some numb nuts on another thread that claimed he worked in a "CNC" shop.
He was telling everyone that he would just put a giant block of metal in the machine and it would spit out many parts from the block, finished! I didn't even bother responding, it was so idiotic.Jim
Thank you Bill!I voted 'pay up if you can't wait'
paying extra for 'expedited' isn't unheard of
I am very happy with my sprocket and adapter
(I got lucky and ordered at the perfect time in the production schedule)
I showed your handiwork to a lot of people at the deathrace and they all loved it
perhaps stock stuff like the shimano cb adapter and sprockets, intakes,,,etc could be at the same rate/price and custom items should be priced accordingly
custom by definition is time-consuming and therefore costly
Even if I do go the standard route...and stop offering custom stuff...I will have a list of customers that can order custom when they need it...for no extra charge.
Jim
I appreciate all of the comments you guys have made!
Keep them comming...It let's me understand this market, and how best to proceed.
Jim
Keep them comming...It let's me understand this market, and how best to proceed.
Jim
i agree with bill...
If you want it NOW, you can pay for it. if you say that the most cost effective way to run parts is in batches of 50, people can either get on the list, or pay the difference in the cost from the batch production to the 1 off.
im not sure how you do it now, but for a part such as a sprocket, maybe consider running blank sprockets, no teeth or holes just the basic shape, then when you get say 10 orders for 36t 9 hole sprockets, run those 10. same with hub adapters and the matching sprockets.
again im not sure of the process you go through to produce the parts so this may be unfounded, just food for thought.
If you want it NOW, you can pay for it. if you say that the most cost effective way to run parts is in batches of 50, people can either get on the list, or pay the difference in the cost from the batch production to the 1 off.
im not sure how you do it now, but for a part such as a sprocket, maybe consider running blank sprockets, no teeth or holes just the basic shape, then when you get say 10 orders for 36t 9 hole sprockets, run those 10. same with hub adapters and the matching sprockets.
again im not sure of the process you go through to produce the parts so this may be unfounded, just food for thought.
Nice.BarelyAWake,
You are hereby informed that you will be given the product of your choice, at no charge, from our shop.
I have never read a more accurate description of how this all works...I could not have worded it better myself. Wood shop, metal shop...it's all the same hassle. There was some numb nuts on another thread that claimed he worked in a "CNC" shop.
Jim
BarelyAWake,
You are hereby informed that you will be given the product of your choice, at no charge, from our shop.
I have never read a more accurate description of how this all works...I could not have worded it better myself. Wood shop, metal shop...it's all the same hassle. There was some numb nuts on another thread that claimed he worked in a "CNC" shop.
Jim
Thanks Jim, but in all honesty - had you a product I could use on my ride I'd have happily purchased it already, the price and time never a problem, it's simply an incompatibly issue.
That CNC woodshop used to drive me insane, such beautiful machines with such incredible potential - all wasted on a guy whom never understood what they were meant for... to the point where the original service representative had an epic temper tantrum and refused to ever come back (stuff thrown, cops called - it was awesome heh). The company then sent a replacement, whom lasted a couple of visits before being mysteriously replaced with another, a somewhat surly fellow whom would only respond with grunts as he replaced blown bearings and stripped tracks.
*shrug* We tried, but there's no reasoning with a guy that thinks money can buy instant expertise
I voted for cost. I think it may be a wash as far as either or... If you raise the price you may not get as many orders and therefore may be able to fill the orders more quickly.... who knows?
Price and "patience". I think we have evolved into such a "Want it now" mind frame. Everything has become instant. Phones are a prime example... remember having to wait to call somebody when you got back to the house? Or sending your pictures off to have them developed? I want to talk now and I want to see them now has become the norm.
A reasonable turn around time could be set. I know in some cases it has been months..
I'm not knocking the advancemnts... I use them everyday. It's just in some cases "You can't have it now"
Price and "patience". I think we have evolved into such a "Want it now" mind frame. Everything has become instant. Phones are a prime example... remember having to wait to call somebody when you got back to the house? Or sending your pictures off to have them developed? I want to talk now and I want to see them now has become the norm.
A reasonable turn around time could be set. I know in some cases it has been months..
I'm not knocking the advancemnts... I use them everyday. It's just in some cases "You can't have it now"
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Although I voted price over speed, I will purchase another of Jim's creations and pay more for it weather I have to wait or not. Just saying he is making a superior product and you wait for it or go with a squish sprocket. I know what I'm using.
This was a rough one.... I'm not very pateint, but I do have a
bunch of spare time. Knowing that the chineese
kits are..not highest quality.. I'd rather just get them faster. I know you work hard
on the parts, and waiting is ok with me...
Speaking of parts.. You might have another order
of sprocket adapters coming from st.louis, mo
bunch of spare time. Knowing that the chineese
kits are..not highest quality.. I'd rather just get them faster. I know you work hard
on the parts, and waiting is ok with me...
Speaking of parts.. You might have another order
of sprocket adapters coming from st.louis, mo
I think you should be making a profit. I don't want to sound like I am telling you how to run your business but I have some ideas. If you are not making anything on your hard work then you should raise your prices. People will pay because your services and parts are worth more than you charge. We all want to see you around for a long time and come out with new parts (especially the complete billet engine). You mentioned you are working on the engine and it will be less than 200 dollars. I would pay 400 and I bet you would have a long line of buyers for a lot more than 200 bucks. You are selling yourself too short.
Another thing is I called and wanted to order two sprockets that would be custom one-offs. My idea was a sprocket that is machined to mount directly to my ISO 6 bolt brake disk hub. I wanted a 38T and a 54T. I was told by the lady on the phone you no longer do one offs. I was willing to pay 200 bucks for those two sprockets:-( Instead I ordered a top hat adapter and two sprockets from Andy for 130 bucks and now I am having to figure out a way to mount the sprocket to the top hat without hardware interfering with the spokes.
Once I worked with an old and wise promoter on promoting an event. The event was a documentary on Lyme disease to promote awareness to our community. I wasn't going to charge admission because I thought it would bring in more people if the flyers said "free". He told me no, you need to charge something so the public will ascribe value to it. He said, if it is free people are likely to think oh its free it probably isn't that good but if you charge say 10 bucks they are likely to think, oh wow this must be worth seeing! The same goes for your business. I think in your situation raising prices will ascribe more value and I am sure everyone here will agree that you deserve to be making a descent profit.
I hope this helps and good luck to you and your business.
Another thing is I called and wanted to order two sprockets that would be custom one-offs. My idea was a sprocket that is machined to mount directly to my ISO 6 bolt brake disk hub. I wanted a 38T and a 54T. I was told by the lady on the phone you no longer do one offs. I was willing to pay 200 bucks for those two sprockets:-( Instead I ordered a top hat adapter and two sprockets from Andy for 130 bucks and now I am having to figure out a way to mount the sprocket to the top hat without hardware interfering with the spokes.
Once I worked with an old and wise promoter on promoting an event. The event was a documentary on Lyme disease to promote awareness to our community. I wasn't going to charge admission because I thought it would bring in more people if the flyers said "free". He told me no, you need to charge something so the public will ascribe value to it. He said, if it is free people are likely to think oh its free it probably isn't that good but if you charge say 10 bucks they are likely to think, oh wow this must be worth seeing! The same goes for your business. I think in your situation raising prices will ascribe more value and I am sure everyone here will agree that you deserve to be making a descent profit.
I hope this helps and good luck to you and your business.
I want my parts fast. My free time is very scarce and I'd pay extra to get a part shipped quick isntead of waiting for an item on backorder to be replenished.
I will also paypal in advance for a US made version of the HT engine. I'm tired of the false promises the piratecycles made with their stage I/II engines being available in Spring.
I will also paypal in advance for a US made version of the HT engine. I'm tired of the false promises the piratecycles made with their stage I/II engines being available in Spring.
