Clutch arm questions

Stratman · Jun 16, 2010

I am having issues with my clutch arm and have done pretty extensive research (IMO) and think there is something wrong with my clutch arm. I am trying to link the cable to the clutch arm.

I have read numerous posts that mention that the smaller spring on the clutch cable is not needed, that you can just use the big spring to protect the cable from the heat of the engine. The posts also say that the inner spring is sufficient enough to make the necessary adjustments.

However, when I attach the clutch cover (and arm) back on the engine, the clutch arm moves very freely, there is no 'spring return' what so ever. This doesn't seem right from what every one is describing, and I'm afraid that maybe there is a broken spring inside the housing that attaches the clutch arm to the clutch housing?

Should the clutch arm move freely, when attached, with no spring return? Am I missing an adjustment somewhere? The clutch arm right now is very loose, if I install with the smaller spring, it pulls the clutch arm in all the way, which is opposite of what should happen. This is probably just a silly oversight on my part (I'm hoping).

Hopefully, what I'm describing makes sense. I am posting pictures, just in case it doesn't. This is the first hitch I've hit, everything else has been a breeze.

moronic_kaos · Jun 16, 2010

You've got an interesting setup going on there... Never seen it done like that. But nevertheless it mimics everything else in concept.

What would you say the range of your clutch is. Like, if you're looking down at your motor from sitting on your bike, what position is the clutch arm unable to move counter-clockwise anymore? 6:00? 5:00? 3:00 (that'd be pretty bad)? etc. Does it just rotate all the way around without catching anything?

Stratman said:
if I install with the smaller spring, it pulls the clutch arm in all the way

What? There's no way the spring could "grab" the arm to pull it.

EDIT: Is the metal rod underneath that cover intact?

Stratman · Jun 16, 2010

The clutch arm cannot move past 5:00 counter clockwise, or past 7:00 clockwise, definitely is engaging the pin. The arm just moves freely, without any resistance what so ever. I can see how the inner spring helps pull the clutch arm in (away from the chain), but not how the clutch spring returns (clutch out, engine engaged).

The clutch cable setup routing on this engine (Grubee Stare Fire 2) isn't like anything else I've seen on this site.

Should the arm just move between 5:00 and 7:00 with out resistance (with out any cable attached) or should there be spring like resistance?

moronic_kaos · Jun 16, 2010

Yea that's perfect. It should start pulling the clutch at about 5:00 or 5:30. Between that and 7 it just flops and past that (clockwise) it shouldn't turn because the flat spot on the arm (inside the cover) hits the pin.

Tighten the clutch cable so it's got like as little bit of wiggle room as possible (1mm-ish). And that's how it is.

wasabi805 · Jun 16, 2010

order a new arm and instal the return spring.

did you bend the arm or did it come that way with the kit?

-wasabi

moronic_kaos · Jun 16, 2010

By the way in your manual (if you got one), does it talk about how to modify the spring tension inside the motor? The access cover for the adjustment washer on yours appears totally absent. Hope they adjusted it well from factory.

EDIT: and btw, the return spring also seems to restrict the arm from wobbling around due to vibrations while the engine is in gear. If you pull off that cover and look at it, there's a small pin (1 or 2 mm thick) that goes through the inside of the cover which holds that arm in place. If that arm is constantly vibrating, there's a chance the pin will actually wear to the point to which it won't hold that arm in place and when you pull it into neutral, it'l simply pop out and the motor will be stuck in gear until you open up the cover and stick it back in.

Getting that pin out can be a real pain (I've had to do it twice) so take care of it, put that return spring back on.

Stratman · Jun 16, 2010

The arm came that way. Does the spring you are talking about go around the pin that the clutch arm screws onto (on the sprocket cover, with acorn nut on top in my photos).

Stratman · Jun 16, 2010

No, mention of that. The manual that came with this thing is a total joke, unless you have a mechanical engineering degree. I have read on the site about adjust the internal spring using the set screw and flower nut. But was hoping I could get through this part before I made internal spring adjustments. I still have to get to where the clutch arm will return to 'home' after releasing the clutch handle. Right now, it will only pull the clutch in and stays in that position.

wasabi805 · Jun 16, 2010

it goes in between the inside of the clutch arm and that "t- shaped post piece" that you run the clutch wire through. You know, the t shaped piece that is screwed into the base of the motor. You need the tension of the spring to push the arm out for the clutch to properly engage.

wasabi805 · Jun 16, 2010

ps... it's possible to get your bike going without the spring but, i've ran into problems down the road without that spring. also, make sure once you get the spring in, you have no slack on the clutch cable.

moronic_kaos · Jun 16, 2010

Home being 5:00 right?

Is your engine assembled to the point where you can check to see if it's in gear or in neutral? It would help to see if it's actually getting in and out of gear.

If it is, then something is really really wrong with your internal spring tension. Here's what you can do to help us out. Get a pic of that pin under the cover (that goes into the center of the sprocket), and also on the actual clutch when the arm is moved into and out of gear. Would help to see the position of the flower nut, and the range at which that outer wheel (round metal plate the flower nut screws into) moves while the arm is in, and out. Just to see if everything else is functioning right.

Stratman · Jun 16, 2010

i think this is part of the problem, i don't have the 't-shaped post'. the clutch cable fits through a little mounting hole on the opposite side of the engine. the spring that came with the clutch cable isn't long enough to create a spring return when the clutch is engaged. i'm going to have to figure something else out, i guess.

Stratman · Jun 16, 2010

I am figuring home as 7:00pm, meaning clutch handle out and clutch arm is moving towards left side of the bike (engine).

I will start taking more pictures. Thanks for your help

wasabi805 · Jun 17, 2010

i wasn't paying attention to the pic. You don't need the t shape thing you just need the tension of the spring Just make sure you insert the end of the wire through the spring. Then take the end of the wire and feed it through the clutch arm. Again, make sure you have no slack in the cable by using a set of pliers, pull the end of the wire, and tighten down the screw on your clutch arm that holds the wire in place.

Stratman · Jun 17, 2010

Here the pictures I took with the clutch arm moved in and out. Note: the cable is not attached, I just manually pushed the clutch arm in and out. There was no movement anywhere I could see or hear anywhere on the plate.

Stratman · Jun 17, 2010

It's in gear, I can't get it out of gear.

corgi1 · Jun 17, 2010

There were2 springs,the larger one is a heat shield to keep the clutch cable from melting on the cylinder,,,,the smaller spring goes between the clutch arm (over the cable its self)and the place where the cable housing stop is,,,,,pull the free play out of the clutch lever while sliding the cable through the end of the clutch arm,(compressing the smaller spring)and tighten the (brass?)cable stop no the cable(the clutch arm should be at the 5:00 position at this point and there should be little play(pincil lead width) play left in the clutch arm,,,,,,,,,,,squeeze the clutch lever on the handel bars and see if it works

corgi1 · Jun 17, 2010

Put a thumb nail size dab of grease on the small gear while you have the clutch cover opened

Stratman · Jun 17, 2010

i got that done Corgi, the home position, handle open is at 5:00 and when squeezed, goes to 4:00. But bike is still in gear and clutch plate does not move.

Check my setup to make sure?

moronic_kaos · Jun 17, 2010

Ok so what happens if you just press as hard as possible to try and force that arm counter-clockwise? It does take a bit of force to move that lever out of gear. Probably like, at least 3/4 of the strength of one of your thumbs. It should hurt a little bit if you try and hold it there longer than a couple seconds. & that outer wheel shouldn't move as much as the lever, it'l only move like maybe 1mm or so.

Also, the o'clock discussion here may be a little off. Most of our arms aren't bent like that. So when we say 5:00, we mean the base of your clutch arm is pointing that way, not the bent end.

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