Ins and Outs (perhaps?) of Red Threadlocker

Toadmund · Feb 7, 2012

So I got myself a 300 year supply of Permatex brand Red Threadlocker.
I am no stranger to nuts and bolts, but unfamiliar with using the stuff.

Without heat will I ever get a bolt out or a nut off without using a lot of vulgar language?
Can one heat the aluminum part enough for the bolt to come out without cracking the part?
What would you never use it on, what engine part?

Anything else, should I get some blue too?
The 10 year supply size?

Hope this thread doesn't get locked 8-(

Al.Fisherman · Feb 7, 2012

Toadmund said:
So I got myself a 300 year supply of Permatex brand Red Threadlocker.
I am no stranger to nuts and bolts, but unfamiliar with using the stuff.

Without heat will I ever get a bolt out or a nut off without using a lot of vulgar language?
Can one heat the aluminum part enough for the bolt to come out without cracking the part?
What would you never use it on, what engine part?

Anything else, should I get some blue too?
The 10 year supply size?

Hope this thread doesn't get locked 8-(

First off I use RED on all my Chinese engines. Since you need heat to break the RED loose, don't use it on anything you plan to remove the part, that you can't heat. Although I've never had to remove a fastener I'd heat the fastener, and not the aluminum. Cylinder, mounting, intake, and exhaust studs all can be heated should you decide to pull the studs. I have NEVER had a stud problem stripping or pulling the threads out. I replace all studs with Metric grade 8.8. I haven't had a use for the BLUE yet.

They make the locker in small squeeze containers, for about 10 bucks.

Toadmund · Feb 7, 2012

How much heat using a propane torch?

Temperature range -54c to 150c (-65F to 300F)

That much I guess, but they don't specify if that's the application temp. or the usage temp.

Should I return the unopened package and get the blue stuff?

2door · Feb 7, 2012

Al Fisherman and I usually agree on most every issue...but this one.

I never use red loctite on any bicycle part. I have used blue on things like chain guard fasteners and fender mounts, things that are subjected to vibration and where I've had screws work loose but not on any engine component. In nearly five years of riding motorized bicycles I've not had any engine fastener come loose. That includes cylinder head nuts, intake or exhaust fasteners, engine mounting bolts/nuts or engine cover screws. I rely on proper torqueing techniques, good quality nuts and washers. By proper torque, I mean torque to specs then re-check after the engine has reached operating temperature a couple of times. After that, I don't have any issues with fasteners working loose due to vibration. But that's just me.

This is a subject that has been hashed over numerous times here and you'll find people on both sides of the fence. In the end you need to do what works for you through experimentation.
Tom

muddybike · Feb 7, 2012

I am a big fan of the blue.
I have not used the red , I am sure there is applications where it would rock , but for me the blue has always been enough.

Al.Fisherman · Feb 7, 2012

I'm sure that BLUE would work out well, but had RED (left over from installing the rails for a 5th wheel), so that's what I used and like it. Have been using it ever since.

muddybike · Feb 8, 2012

And to be honest I had a big bottle of blue left over from my rc car days so that is what I am using , lol red would be overkill on and 1/10 scale.
Tho if I ever had a problem with a bolt pretreated with blue backing off I would step up to the red in no time , I have to admit with the blue and cheaper quality fasteners I tend to goop the stuff on quite thick, if you let a bit of the blue harden up behind the nut , you can tell with just a glance if your nuts are backing off, when they do the excess lock tight flakes off.

The_Aleman · Feb 8, 2012

I use red on stuff like engine studs, blue on anything else that I worry might come loose.

Like Tom says, proper torque procedure trumps the need for most locktite, but Father Time is a really sneaky guy!

Toadmund · Feb 8, 2012

Well,I returned the red and got some citrus engine cleaner and some hand cleaner.
When I feel the need I will get the blue stuff. (In the 10 year supply tube)

I had pictures in my head of me needing to field fix something, and I can't get it apart, that's why blue appeals to me now.

biknut · Feb 8, 2012

I would stick with the blue. 300 year supply won't do much good. as it'll dry out a long time before that. I usually buy smaller bottles for that reason, but this is Texas.

I can't think of any part on a motor bicycle that really needs the red. If you use red, try to use only the smallest amount possible. More than 1 molecule and you need to heat the bolt to unscrew it.. I usually use a propane torch. It doesn't need to be too hot, just warmish, but the warmer the better. You can also use a heat gun, like used for heat shrink tubing. That will take a little longer. Red is over kill.

The blue works great and you don't need heat to get it apart.

Do exactly as I say because my wife says, I know it, and it all, or something like that.

UriDead · Feb 8, 2012

Red is for my Harleys and Blue is for the Bicycles....

Venice Motor Bikes · Feb 9, 2012

I used to use red on everything... I finally decided it was too much of a pain in the rear if you ever have to remove the parts.
Now I use blue on everything! The bolts still stay put & they're much easier to remove if I have to.

Toadmund · Feb 9, 2012

I got the blue stuff today.
Does it work right away? I noticed as I hand tightened in a bolt it felt like it had a fluid like resistance, sticky in a gritty feeling sort of a way.

Too brain dead right now to describe it any better.

PS, I hope to get my bike built enough to start up and try this weekend if I keep at it.
Or next week, depends on complications and time.

Oh, and thanks for the input everybody.

Al.Fisherman · Feb 9, 2012

How I do it is to put a drop or two on the threads (after running a tap to the bottom). Screw the stud to the bottom and I back it out 1/8 to 1/4 turn. Let set overnight and you are good to go. The reason I back it out (this is my feeling) that the aluminum case and stud expand differently, so there is no pressure on the stud from case expansion. The threads in this cheaply made case leave much to be desired.

bairdco · Feb 9, 2012

i use red on the sprocket adapter bolts because i had a bolt back out and grab my coaster brake arm, locking up the wheel and sending me into a 40mph, 100' long skid.

i've also never had a problem breaking the bolts loose with just a little more pressure. in my various jobs over the years i've used red on many things, and again, never needed heat to remove them. usually one quick crank on the wrench will snap it loose.

on my engines, i use anti-seize compound on every bolt and nut that goes on it. after upgrading all of it, of course. i like my bolts to come off clean when i need them to. like tom says, proper torque is the way to go.

loctite needs time to set up. if you want an emergency fix, get superglue. it'll lock down stripped bolts on a whole lot of stuff, like brake levers, throttles, etc.

heck, i glued a clutch lever directly to my bars after the clamp broke , and it held for two days, only coming off when i needed to fix it.

Buzzard · Feb 11, 2012

Here's a little something that I used to do: over in Nam on the fast boats we had a lot of aluminum parts and hardware that were prone to high corrosion from salt water., when you went to remove a fastener or stud from aluminum housing it would pull/strip the threads in the housing. To prevent this --now get this -- we used unflavored Milk of Magnesia, the magnesium would prevent the threads from pulling out when you were disassembling even when you had every thing torqued to specks. They used this stuff on helicopter engines too. If you think I'm full of crap, TRY IT!
buzzard

Al.Fisherman · Feb 11, 2012

I have heard of that, although never tried it.

GearNut · Feb 11, 2012

I know that you are not full of poop, Buzzard.
A now long gone friend of mine used to do design and prototype fabrication for NASA, Northrup-Grumman, Lockheed-Martin and a few other aircraft companies.
He taught me to use Milk of Magnesia whenever threading stainless steel fasteners into aluminum cases. It stops any and all dissimilar metal corrosion that will occur, makes for a good anti-seize in harsh conditions, and where a "wet" torque may be specified in an assembly, it lubricates the threads to obtain that torque.

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Ins and Outs (perhaps?) of Red Threadlocker

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