I also use 5160 and have some 1084 but haven't used it yet. also use 6150. Don Fogg does a good demo. If you get a chance go watch him. I use the horizontal forge. My buds use an upright one. We haven't used coal in a awhile propane is easier to setup for demonstrations. We have started using lump charcoal. we like it and we also cook on it during the demonstrations.