Indian Tadpole
- Thread starter silverbear
- Start date
Nice to see a side by side comparison. I remember buying one of the first adapters Manic produced and it was so good to have a real quality part available. I can see that Pat has taken things a step further yet. In just a few years so many better parts are available to us. Makes you wonder what the future will bring.
SB
SB
Tinsmith, Silverbear.
Your both right about the Manic Mechanics adapter. I can't imagine that the words rag joint and Predator 212 would have been used in the same sentence except to describe the severity of the accident. He opened up the motor bike hobby/industry to probably thousands of people who would have given up when faced with the rag joint installation.
Other people have made adapters based on the Manic Mechanic but they seem to have drifted away from the forum.
What made me write about the Sportsman Flyer hub adapter with so much enthusiasm is that it is so well built and more heavily built than the Manic Mechanic adapter. The fact that it is less than $10 more is a huge bonus to me in it's self and then to get a custom made 72 tooth sprocket for $30 dollars more on top of that. Fantastic.
Steve.
Your both right about the Manic Mechanics adapter. I can't imagine that the words rag joint and Predator 212 would have been used in the same sentence except to describe the severity of the accident. He opened up the motor bike hobby/industry to probably thousands of people who would have given up when faced with the rag joint installation.
Other people have made adapters based on the Manic Mechanic but they seem to have drifted away from the forum.
What made me write about the Sportsman Flyer hub adapter with so much enthusiasm is that it is so well built and more heavily built than the Manic Mechanic adapter. The fact that it is less than $10 more is a huge bonus to me in it's self and then to get a custom made 72 tooth sprocket for $30 dollars more on top of that. Fantastic.
Steve.
The installation of the rear wheel and sprocket in the tri car was going well until I was Fasteddie'd. Despite all the clamping and measuring and adjusting the seat and chain stay were out of line with the rest of the bike. Buggah.
Nothing the Comeback Kid and a pipe clamp of the correct size couldn't straighten out. Literally. I slid two small sprockets on the pedal crankshaft so I could get the distance between the two proper sized sprockets when I order them and work out a way to connect them together. It also made sure the rear sprocket and chain were running in a straight line to the drive sprocket.
As Pat said the inside sprocket runs close to the bottom bracket and I need to get a little more clearance and I'm planning on running a bronze washer between the sprocket and the bottom bracket as a sacrifice surface in case they should rub together while running.
The better weather and my enthusiasm seen to have returned at the same time oddly enough. Maybe this build will get finished after all.
My ever helpful brother pointed out if it didn't it could be put out front of the house as a planter. More than once I've found myself wondering just what flowers would look the best.
It is now referred to as the U.F.O....... The Un Finished Object.
Steve.
Nothing the Comeback Kid and a pipe clamp of the correct size couldn't straighten out. Literally. I slid two small sprockets on the pedal crankshaft so I could get the distance between the two proper sized sprockets when I order them and work out a way to connect them together. It also made sure the rear sprocket and chain were running in a straight line to the drive sprocket.
As Pat said the inside sprocket runs close to the bottom bracket and I need to get a little more clearance and I'm planning on running a bronze washer between the sprocket and the bottom bracket as a sacrifice surface in case they should rub together while running.
The better weather and my enthusiasm seen to have returned at the same time oddly enough. Maybe this build will get finished after all.
My ever helpful brother pointed out if it didn't it could be put out front of the house as a planter. More than once I've found myself wondering just what flowers would look the best.
It is now referred to as the U.F.O....... The Un Finished Object.
Steve.
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Thank you Ron.
I just ordered a Bully clutch from Sportsman Flyer. I purchased a Hillard heavy duty clutch when I started the build and in cruising the net I kept running across warnings that the drum will heat up and the shoes will stick to it if you weren't careful.
One of the more prolific builders on here and I can't remember who it was, said he wasn't using them anymore because of that. He was using disk clutches so I looked up to see what Sportscar Pat had and of course it was a disk clutch so I ordered one.
Pat worked with Bully to set them up for motor bikes. Now it's ordering a sprocket and a few other parts to finish this off.
Steve.
I just ordered a Bully clutch from Sportsman Flyer. I purchased a Hillard heavy duty clutch when I started the build and in cruising the net I kept running across warnings that the drum will heat up and the shoes will stick to it if you weren't careful.
One of the more prolific builders on here and I can't remember who it was, said he wasn't using them anymore because of that. He was using disk clutches so I looked up to see what Sportscar Pat had and of course it was a disk clutch so I ordered one.
Pat worked with Bully to set them up for motor bikes. Now it's ordering a sprocket and a few other parts to finish this off.
Steve.
Pat sent me an email last night that the clutches are back ordered 2 to 4 weeks. It's racing season start up for the go kart people and the rush is on. Motorbike clutches take a bit of a back seat I would imagine. Still lots to do on the tri car and I'll be at it for the next while.
We are breaking into our better spring weather now and I'm going to try and get everything done except the clutch set up and get the seat installed so it can be pushed outside on a good day and we can see what it looks like all together.
Steve
We are breaking into our better spring weather now and I'm going to try and get everything done except the clutch set up and get the seat installed so it can be pushed outside on a good day and we can see what it looks like all together.
Steve
Steve I confess to not having read through the entire thread,yet, but I've spent more than a little time reading it to this point. So I feel this is a valid insight. If anyone desires to understand and grow as a fabricator they would do well to not only read this thread but study it as well.
There are a lot of people who want to build creative transport without adequate base skill sets. Most of us are not going to build a Tadpole but we all will face basic problem solving; a skill which can be learned over time with trial & errors, many errors, on your own moto bicycles. Learning from this thread can accelerate the process and lessen the pain while gleaning the grain (gain for you non farming types).
Thanks for taking the time to explain in word & pictures the process & time involved in creating something as unique & beautiful as your Indian "tadpole" it is inspiring even in it's under construction condition.
Rick C.
There are a lot of people who want to build creative transport without adequate base skill sets. Most of us are not going to build a Tadpole but we all will face basic problem solving; a skill which can be learned over time with trial & errors, many errors, on your own moto bicycles. Learning from this thread can accelerate the process and lessen the pain while gleaning the grain (gain for you non farming types).
Thanks for taking the time to explain in word & pictures the process & time involved in creating something as unique & beautiful as your Indian "tadpole" it is inspiring even in it's under construction condition.
Rick C.
Rick,
Thank you for the kind words. As I told a fellow member a few weeks ago I honestly don't see myself as a great builder. I spent most of my working life restoring antique furniture which led to being asked to build copies of furniture that had to fit into a certain space with pictures from pages torn out of Good Housekeeping magazines as a guide.
Most often when your close to the subject you don't see what others do.
My welding and fabrication skills such as they were when I started were learned in a vocational school 50 years before. Took a lot of dusting off and video watching to get them going again. My son the highly skilled fabricator and welder emailed me when I was do with most of the welding and said that my welding was much improved compared to when I started.
I guess when it came to building the tri car which I saw in a photo taken probably 25 feet away I naturally reverted to guessing just what size it was from different known sizes such as the bike frame and the size of the average chair ( I measured the office chair I was sitting in at the time.) and then guessed the rest.
Looking at the computer as I measured across the front of the office chair to judge the front wheel spacing allowing for the fenders and turning radius. Once the front axle and bike were put together the rest sort of fell into place. I just wanted to keep it as visually real as possible.
The seat was the easiest part since it is basically a piece of furniture. I did mess up the foot rest and had to remake it after I put it on the bike. The best part of working with wood is you can burn your mistakes and no one knows.
It has been frustrating at best to make it. I've done the "What the *&#$/why me." dance many, many times and the whole bike has been seconds away from being cut up and scrapped even more than I can think of. I've learned to walk away and come back later when I cooled off so I don't do anything rash and live to regret it.
When I started this there was as I said one photo taken at a motorcycle meet. The bike had the seat on it and I was in love/lust. I had to see if I was up to the challenge. Then a couple of other photos showed up but always a side shot. I had to guess about the spindles and how they were made by trying to see through the wheels spokes to get a clue.
Now of course they sold the most original one that is left a few months ago for $161,000 + the buyers premium with a bunch of photos showing all the details.
When I started building I made up my mind that if anyone wanted to follow me and build their own I'd do everything in my power to explain in words and photos just what I did and the problems I encountered and how I worked my way around them.
All to often some one tells us that they did something but not how or they bought something but not where.
My greatest hope is that someone makes another tri car. Indian or otherwise and I would very much advise doing one of your own design. While the Indian was a known and identifiable design it was restricting to do because you couldn't add all the great ideas that came along as your building or you see something you could buy that would add to the appeal of the build. Such as go kart spindles for the steering instead of making you own.
If anyone who reads this want's to build another Indian tri car or for that matter their own tri car please click on my name at the heading and the click on "Send a personal message." on the menu that drops down or use the menu to send me an email. I have all the patterns for the parts that need them and will offer advice freely as you build.
You will however be responsible for buying your own aspirin. From personal experience I'd suggest going with the big bottle.
Steve.
Thank you for the kind words. As I told a fellow member a few weeks ago I honestly don't see myself as a great builder. I spent most of my working life restoring antique furniture which led to being asked to build copies of furniture that had to fit into a certain space with pictures from pages torn out of Good Housekeeping magazines as a guide.
Most often when your close to the subject you don't see what others do.
My welding and fabrication skills such as they were when I started were learned in a vocational school 50 years before. Took a lot of dusting off and video watching to get them going again. My son the highly skilled fabricator and welder emailed me when I was do with most of the welding and said that my welding was much improved compared to when I started.
I guess when it came to building the tri car which I saw in a photo taken probably 25 feet away I naturally reverted to guessing just what size it was from different known sizes such as the bike frame and the size of the average chair ( I measured the office chair I was sitting in at the time.) and then guessed the rest.
Looking at the computer as I measured across the front of the office chair to judge the front wheel spacing allowing for the fenders and turning radius. Once the front axle and bike were put together the rest sort of fell into place. I just wanted to keep it as visually real as possible.
The seat was the easiest part since it is basically a piece of furniture. I did mess up the foot rest and had to remake it after I put it on the bike. The best part of working with wood is you can burn your mistakes and no one knows.
It has been frustrating at best to make it. I've done the "What the *&#$/why me." dance many, many times and the whole bike has been seconds away from being cut up and scrapped even more than I can think of. I've learned to walk away and come back later when I cooled off so I don't do anything rash and live to regret it.
When I started this there was as I said one photo taken at a motorcycle meet. The bike had the seat on it and I was in love/lust. I had to see if I was up to the challenge. Then a couple of other photos showed up but always a side shot. I had to guess about the spindles and how they were made by trying to see through the wheels spokes to get a clue.
Now of course they sold the most original one that is left a few months ago for $161,000 + the buyers premium with a bunch of photos showing all the details.
When I started building I made up my mind that if anyone wanted to follow me and build their own I'd do everything in my power to explain in words and photos just what I did and the problems I encountered and how I worked my way around them.
All to often some one tells us that they did something but not how or they bought something but not where.
My greatest hope is that someone makes another tri car. Indian or otherwise and I would very much advise doing one of your own design. While the Indian was a known and identifiable design it was restricting to do because you couldn't add all the great ideas that came along as your building or you see something you could buy that would add to the appeal of the build. Such as go kart spindles for the steering instead of making you own.
If anyone who reads this want's to build another Indian tri car or for that matter their own tri car please click on my name at the heading and the click on "Send a personal message." on the menu that drops down or use the menu to send me an email. I have all the patterns for the parts that need them and will offer advice freely as you build.
You will however be responsible for buying your own aspirin. From personal experience I'd suggest going with the big bottle.
Steve.
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Steve, I had to smile while reading your thoughtful post. Yes, it has been a journey, hasn't it? A few feet away from this laptop is my version of the tri-car which was originally to be made in the spirit of the 1906ish Indian, the one with an in frame gas tank which came after yours with the camel back tank. Early on I broke away with something less restrictive as I don't have the skill set you have. (Mine became an Indian Hiawatha or Hiawatha Indian or something fictional like that.) I'm happy with it as an interesting and to my eyes beautiful art object which is part rolling sculpture and part furniture. Even more-so than yours, it is an "unfinished melody" as it was dreamed as a functional motorbike to be ridden down Bearhead Road in concert with your Indian tri-car. Two aging children going putt putt on wonderful tribute time machines... until that day the fat lady ain't done singing. Ha! Here's to you, bud.
SB
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Silverbear,
I was thinking of you as I typed that. An innocent victim carried along on the old guys stream of madness and now your life is consumed by tri cars too. How good life must have been before I started sending you the odd photo of these wonderfully maddening machines.
I remember saying that it wouldn't take any longer to build two of them and it didn't. Setting up for one or ten really isn't any different other than the time to cut out the pieces needed. Once the jig is set up to weld them together it's just work time.
You did the smart thing in building the Hiawatha Indian. Yours is a clean slate to build what you want and a prime example of what I was advising people to do.
Anticipating that first ride up the Bear Head State Park road is what keeps me focused. It will come even if it's many more years than we thought it would be.
Steve.
I was thinking of you as I typed that. An innocent victim carried along on the old guys stream of madness and now your life is consumed by tri cars too. How good life must have been before I started sending you the odd photo of these wonderfully maddening machines.
I remember saying that it wouldn't take any longer to build two of them and it didn't. Setting up for one or ten really isn't any different other than the time to cut out the pieces needed. Once the jig is set up to weld them together it's just work time.
You did the smart thing in building the Hiawatha Indian. Yours is a clean slate to build what you want and a prime example of what I was advising people to do.
Anticipating that first ride up the Bear Head State Park road is what keeps me focused. It will come even if it's many more years than we thought it would be.
Steve.
I received an email from another member a couple of weeks ago asking if I would build another tri car knowing what I know now. He's not interested in building one but was curious if I would do it again given the time we've both been at it.
Much of the time has been because I've been held up with an major infection in my left knee and haven't been able to work most of the for past two years. Given that yes I would.
I have been putting away a little money every month with the idea that when the tri car is finished there will be one final build. The next birthday will be my 73rd and some day the Train of Life will pull into the station and I'll have to get off. I would like to leave behind one last really nice build for the future generations of my family to have and use.
What will it be? I'm looking at three ideas. First an Indian style bike and sidecar using the Sportsman Flyer frame that is built for the Predator 212 and the Indian style tank they sell along with their drive system and wheels with drum brakes. It would be nice to let someone else do the work for once knowing how well it's done.
The second one is another tri car once again using Sportsman Flyer parts but with a tri car front end. Just to build one the way I want to.
The third one would be a three wheeled velo car with a mahogany body and electric power and pedals to make it road legal here in Canada. Well sort of legal anyway. The power would far exceed what is allowed.
Only time will tell if it happens or will I spent the time chasing the Silverbear up the Bear Head State Park road on our Indian tri cars.
Steve.
Much of the time has been because I've been held up with an major infection in my left knee and haven't been able to work most of the for past two years. Given that yes I would.
I have been putting away a little money every month with the idea that when the tri car is finished there will be one final build. The next birthday will be my 73rd and some day the Train of Life will pull into the station and I'll have to get off. I would like to leave behind one last really nice build for the future generations of my family to have and use.
What will it be? I'm looking at three ideas. First an Indian style bike and sidecar using the Sportsman Flyer frame that is built for the Predator 212 and the Indian style tank they sell along with their drive system and wheels with drum brakes. It would be nice to let someone else do the work for once knowing how well it's done.
The second one is another tri car once again using Sportsman Flyer parts but with a tri car front end. Just to build one the way I want to.
The third one would be a three wheeled velo car with a mahogany body and electric power and pedals to make it road legal here in Canada. Well sort of legal anyway. The power would far exceed what is allowed.
Only time will tell if it happens or will I spent the time chasing the Silverbear up the Bear Head State Park road on our Indian tri cars.
Steve.
I ordered two throttle cables quite a while ago and when I went to get them they weren't where I thought they were. After spending a lot of time going through all the shelves, boxes and bins and giving up I ordered two more and when they came in the mail I put them where I knew I'd find them. Right on top of the first pair.
Got one of them out to hook up the throttle to the carb and discovered they are all brake cables. The throttle cables I ordered yesterday should be here in a week and yes I double checked to make sure that's what they were.
Getting old isn't the joy I'd hoped it would be.
Steve.
Got one of them out to hook up the throttle to the carb and discovered they are all brake cables. The throttle cables I ordered yesterday should be here in a week and yes I double checked to make sure that's what they were.
Getting old isn't the joy I'd hoped it would be.
Steve.
Had to laugh... been there and done that. It's okay. You may need those brake cables anyway. Think of it as possible foresight.
SB
SB
Had to laugh... been there and done that. It's okay. You may need those brake cables anyway. Think of it as possible foresight. Sounds like me all over again, LOL, but cleaning shop has helped a lot. All small boxes all labeled,now just got to find the right box,LOL. Glad you are getting somewhere ....................Curt
What really toasted my biscuits was that I emptied the box they were in because I was certain that's where they were. There is no way they could have been in there and I didn't see them
I'll be the first one to admit that Fasteddy isn't always the swiftest creek under the bridge but there is absolutely no way they were missed. That will remain a head scratcher. There has been so many of them in my life I'm bald.
They will be of use in the future. I keep looking at the four wheeled car with the passenger seat in front that Ludwig posted on the velo car thread. Using it as a pattern it would be a reasonably easy build. I said that about the tri cars five years ago I know but this would be a free wheeling build with no following what someone else built. That lesson has been learned.
Square tube frame for easy welding. Two seat springs from a buggy separated to give you four springs like a cycle cart. Predator 212 running to a lawn mower differential with a sprocket on each end running back to two Honda 90 rear wheels with sprockets and two Honda 90 front wheels with the bearings changed to 22mm and on the golf cart axles I have.
No body and just a seat to worry about makes it easy. Not legal anywhere in the U.S. or Canada that I know of but fun to have anyway. We could always give the police on Bear Head State Park road a puzzled look like we can't believe they're serious and hope for the best.
Steve.
I'll be the first one to admit that Fasteddy isn't always the swiftest creek under the bridge but there is absolutely no way they were missed. That will remain a head scratcher. There has been so many of them in my life I'm bald.
They will be of use in the future. I keep looking at the four wheeled car with the passenger seat in front that Ludwig posted on the velo car thread. Using it as a pattern it would be a reasonably easy build. I said that about the tri cars five years ago I know but this would be a free wheeling build with no following what someone else built. That lesson has been learned.
Square tube frame for easy welding. Two seat springs from a buggy separated to give you four springs like a cycle cart. Predator 212 running to a lawn mower differential with a sprocket on each end running back to two Honda 90 rear wheels with sprockets and two Honda 90 front wheels with the bearings changed to 22mm and on the golf cart axles I have.
No body and just a seat to worry about makes it easy. Not legal anywhere in the U.S. or Canada that I know of but fun to have anyway. We could always give the police on Bear Head State Park road a puzzled look like we can't believe they're serious and hope for the best.
Steve.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C128MK?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=od_aui_detailpages00
I bought these long universal cable with cover and use which ever end I need. Brake uses barrel and throttle I have uses the other end.
I can make a front brake and throttle cable from this when I cut it. The rear brake cable leave a useless part leftover from the cable, but I'm covered for any cable needs at a reasonable price.
How well the ends fit with some various throttles and brake levers, might be a problem. I have also for non-motorized bike I also have shift cable cut from this kind of cable.
MT
PS missing parts after a move I thought I was keeping from happening to me, but somewhere an old rusty, but maybe OK to try to use centrifugal clutch for 5/8 shaft with about 10 tooth 35 gear.... where it is now?
I bought these long universal cable with cover and use which ever end I need. Brake uses barrel and throttle I have uses the other end.
I can make a front brake and throttle cable from this when I cut it. The rear brake cable leave a useless part leftover from the cable, but I'm covered for any cable needs at a reasonable price.
How well the ends fit with some various throttles and brake levers, might be a problem. I have also for non-motorized bike I also have shift cable cut from this kind of cable.
MT
PS missing parts after a move I thought I was keeping from happening to me, but somewhere an old rusty, but maybe OK to try to use centrifugal clutch for 5/8 shaft with about 10 tooth 35 gear.... where it is now?
MT,
I would have used the brake cable but the barrel end was to fat to fit in the throttle. I thought about filing it down and shortening it since it was to long as well but decided just to get a couple of the proper ones.
Amazing how things you feel are safely put away disappear isn't it.
Steve.
I would have used the brake cable but the barrel end was to fat to fit in the throttle. I thought about filing it down and shortening it since it was to long as well but decided just to get a couple of the proper ones.
Amazing how things you feel are safely put away disappear isn't it.
Steve.
Better to get the proper fit cable. I did find one of the applications it was not exact, but I checked it did not bind or slip through, so I kept it.
The problem I really had was with the throttle grip slipping on the plastic inner part. I used hair spray as a fairly good glue. Wiped up the excess and let dry 2 days in warm area. A kids program on PBS about businesses a how they are run, had it from a local bike shop near me this is how they assembled BMX bikes grips on handle bars to stay put. The stuff those experts do they don't need a faulty grip while flying upside down and not land right.
MT
The problem I really had was with the throttle grip slipping on the plastic inner part. I used hair spray as a fairly good glue. Wiped up the excess and let dry 2 days in warm area. A kids program on PBS about businesses a how they are run, had it from a local bike shop near me this is how they assembled BMX bikes grips on handle bars to stay put. The stuff those experts do they don't need a faulty grip while flying upside down and not land right.
MT
