Idiot problems

[The Ping]

Alright, I'll save everybody a whole lot of time and just admit I'm in way over my head, and I have no idea what I'm doing. Speak to me as you would a child.

Now, I'm having a problem with my first build. I managed to start and run the engine for about 20 minutes after a bit of fiddling. It seemed to run okay, sounded fine, revved fine, the whole deal. I kept the speed very low, not much above idle. I voluntarily cut the motor and pedaled unassisted with the clutch disengaged for a short time. Then, my pedaling chain broke (I had to pop a link at one point in the assembly and I must have bumbled putting it back together). Now I can't get the thing to start to save my life.

Here's a list of possible problems:

-Engine probably flooded by now. How do I clear it?

-Engine "chugs" if pedaled slowly. However, if I pedal quickly with the clutch engaged there is no noise. There is plenty of resistance, but no chugging. Air leak? Seizing engine? Everything fine?

-Engine chain will not stay taught. As soon as I pedal a foot, the damn thing gains about 3/4" to 1" of play. I'd love to buy a spring loaded tensioner, but first I want to know the engine will run. Might this be related?

Here's a list of things it's probably not:

-Spark plug has spark with or without the engine "chugging".

-Fuel definitely flows to engine. I've had it leaking out of the exhaust pipe. Did I mention the motor is probably flooded?

-Clutch doesn't seem to be slipping. Again, with it engaged there is always strong resistance in pedaling. With it disengaged pedaling's a breeze. I think it's working correctly, but then again I have no idea what I'm talking about.

I should also mention: when I get the "chugging" noise, there's an audible hissing noise coming from somewhere. Is that just the exhaust, or am I losing compression? Any help is appreciated.

 

[Agreen]

Try tightening the 4 head bolts. 120 inch pounds is the torque spec, so if you don't have a torque wrench, tighten until finger tight, snug them down with a small ratchet in an x pattern. Not too tight, you don't want to snap the studs.

 

[The Ping]

Got good news, got bad news.

Good news: I fixed it.

Bad news: I'm an idiot.

Turns out the clutch was NOT fully engaging. After loosening the cable-holdy-screw thing in the clutch arm, the cable jumped out a bit. Re-tightened the cable-holdy-screw thing and gave it a go. Chugging noise is now consistent, and the engine pops. Wasn't able to start it since it's dark now, thus limiting me to my itty-bitty driveway. But, as I said, it does pop.

I'm going to leave this thread up because I'm fairly certain I'll manage to break something within the week.

Thank you Agreen. I've got a small torque wrench coming in the mail soon. I was planning on putting all of the bolts in the motor to 10 foot-pounds soon as it's in. Cover plates included.

Couple questions in the meantime:

-Any recommendations for spring tensioners? I've seen a couple designs. I'm leaning towards this'n

-Sprocket adapter: Seen three styles. One that's "moto-mechanic" or some such, one that seems pretty much exactly the same as stock except it's got a big honking piece that does go around the hub but doesn't seem to actually clamp to it (probably just for truing the thing, now that I actually think about it), and the "pineapple" style. After the tensioner, this is the most important thing right now. I've actually got 27.5" wheels on my bike, meaning that I had to bend the everloving crap out of a couple spokes AND my sprocket is not 100% true. So after getting a couple spokes to replace the bad ones, which adapter should I get?

 

[bluegoatwoods]

Well, let's start with some basics. You're not an idiot. Your questions were well written enough that we can understand them.

And you're capable of speaking of the clutch being 'engaged' and 'disengaged'. You're golden. You'll do fine.

So...as far as your engine chain loosening on you... I can see that it might be your axle moving forward in the dropouts. Or maybe your engine chain sprocket, on the rear wheel, is moving around. Make sure that those two things are tight and this should not be a problem anymore. But keep an eye on it when you're riding. Some axles just seem to want to move in their dropouts more than others.

Based on what you've described, a flooded engine seems like a possibility. You could let it sit overnight. Or remove the spark plug and pedal it around a bit with the clutch engaged. The piston will force a bunch of that fuel out.

And it could be that your clutch is not engaging quite as strong as you'd really like. Go to the top of this page. You'll find a 'Search' box up there. Type in "Clutch adjust" and you're bound to come up with something useful.

Good luck.

 

[Agreen]

Ha-ha well, you're not an idiot after all then are you? Sounds like you got somewhere at least.

Adjust the clutch by locking the lever in place, remove the set screw, turn the flower nut in as tight as you can by your fingers, and reinstall the flower nut with BLUE loctite. Red is too strong, and the screw will snap if you ever have to remove it.

 

[Will122391]

You shouldn't need a sprocket adapter if you install the rag joint correctly. Ideally you should cut your chain so you don't even need a chain tensioner but for now you can move your tensioner closer to the sprocket. Leave the clutch engaged and push the bike forward to that the top end of the chain is taught and the bottom has some sag so you can see how much slack is in the chain

 

[kevyleven007]

I did the same thing back when I built a 2 stroke bike. As far as the spring tensioner goes I have heard its not a good idea. Because to start the motor the wheel pulls the chain from the bottom causing sudden slack in the chain on top. Get what I'm saying? Anyway you should be ok with what you got just have to fine tune it a little.

 

[The Ping]

Alright, couple of things.

SHE RUNS! SHE EFFING RUNS, MAN!

I took her around my college campus. I ran for about an hour with breaks to let the engine cool. No hiccups.

I've gotten the clutch working, but using the button lock does not work. The clutch will only work when the lever is fully depressed. I tried loosening/tightening the flower nut in the gear case, but it seems to be extremely specific. Moving it even one notch seems to throw off the clutch enough to render it inoperable (it either refuses to disengage or refuses to engage). I'll get back on it tomorrow.

As far as the tensioner: I think I get what you're saying, kevy. Problem is I need a tensioner to guide the chain. The way the motor sits on my frame, the chain would run against the bottom of the drive sprocket cover, even with the right amount of chain links. I suppose I could fix that with an angle grinder, though...

 

[crassius]

the distance between where the lever sits when locked & when engaged determines how much 'grab' the clutch has available

if cable & flower nut are properly adjusted and clutch is free at lock point, but slips when engaged, you need a new lever, or you need to file the housing where the lever sits when released until the lever sits farther forward when released

there is an inner spring that can be adjusted, but this is hard to do - also, the pressure plate can be bent out a bit too, but also hard to do

 

[bairdco]

When you adjust the flower nut, you usually have to adjust the cable, too.

My method, is with the cable unhooked and the flower nut loose enough so the bike rolls freely, adjust the nut one notch at a time till it grabs, and the wheel skids by pushing it. Then adjust one more notch and hook the cable up with no slack.

Pulling the lever now should be easy and the bike should roll freely. Release the lever and it should skid with your weight on it, and engage the motor.

Some fine tuning may be required.

 

[Agreen]

Maybe the amount of pull is wrong because the cable isnt adjusted properly?

You probably need to take more slack out of the cable at the clutch end, and then tighten the flower nut a little more. If by tightening the flower nut one turn you can't disengage it, the one click the other direction it won't engage, the cable pull is too little.

Also, I recommend ditching the small spring. It makes adjusting the clutch hard, makes the lever too hard to pull, and serves no good use in my opinion.

Give it a shot. Let us know what happens. I'd also like to see some pictures as well.

(edit)
Bairdco nailed it...5 minutes before i got done typing.

 

[The Ping]

Ignore this post

 

[The Ping]

Well, I fixed it. It turns out the clutch works much better when it's not installed backwards. I had it pointing towards the cylinder head instead of back towards the carb. So...told ya'll I'm an idiot.

So, now I just have to deal with the chain tension, and I'll be golden. Note: I can't alter the drive sprocket housing, so I do need something there guiding the chain. it's either that or remount the engine, which I'd need new brackets for and no small measure of additional patience.

Now, BEHOLD!

Yes, I bought from BikeBerry. Yes I overpayed badly. I figured the 6 month warranty would make it worth it. I learned I was wrong when I called them and told them I was missing a few small pieces. Lessons learned. The zipties make it go faster, by the way.

 

[Tyler6357]

If you had to bend spokes to get the sprocket on your wheel that sounds like it's most likely the cause of your chain problems. If the sprocket is not centered with the hub the chain tension will get tight and loose as you turn the rear wheel. You said you had a 27.5" wheel? How many spokes does it have? Is it a speed hub? Coaster break? What is the hub circumfrence? If you get a sprocket adapter (highly recommended) it must be the correct size to fit your wheel hub.

 

[The Ping]

It's not a cruiser, so no coaster brake hub. I'm also going to assume it doesn't have a speed hub since I have no idea what that is. I can't find any measuring tape to give a diameter with, but I can give you a picture.

It's a 32 spoke wheel. Here's a picture of one of the spokes I was talking about.

 

[KCvale]

It's a 32 spoke wheel. Here's a picture of one of the spokes I was talking about.

That's the problem.
Kit sprockets are designed for 36 spoke wheels.
A hub sprocket will fix you up but you need the exact diameter, and the right tool for that is a caliper.

http://www.harborfreight.com/6-inch-composite-digital-caliper-93293.html
$11.00

If you have used one you know it is not a 'use once' tool, I use mine so often I just leave it on my desk.http://motorbicycling.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/

 

[2door]

The chain tensioner is just that; a tensioner. You shouldn't need to "guide" the chain onto the sprockets. If the sprockets are aligned properly there is no need to guide the chain. Relying on the tensioner wheel to drag the chain to one side or the other will result in premature tensioner failure, noise, drag and chain wear. Also you can get into big trouble if that tensioner loosens and gets pulled into the spokes. Align the sprockets, center the rear one on the hub and use the tensioner only to maintain chain tension.

Also most hub/sprocket adapters are made to fit a 36 spoke wheel. The spacing of the spokes on a 32 spoke wheel will interfer with the hub adapter just like it will on the nine bolts of the kit 'rag joint' adapter.

Tom

 

[The Ping]

Alright, so in regards to the caliper, I forgot we had one. Analog, but it still works. 1.102" diameter hub, BUT from what 2door and KCvale are saying I'd need a whole new wheel to get an adapter to work anyway. Actually, now that I'm looking, it seems my hub is WAY too thin for most of the hub adapters out there anyway. Also, I guess I ought to spring for those new mounting brackets after all. My engine is canted to the left by a few degrees. It's enough that the drive sprocket and the rear wheel sprocket are permanently out of alignment, and the chain runs against the frame without a guide. If anybody does know and adapter that may work, please point the way. I'm fine with fixing the mounting (if you look closely you'll see the mounting job is ****e anyway), but I'd really rather not go about getting a whole new wheel.

On the plus side, I ran it for about 15 miles today without a hitch. She runs like a work of art. A piece of really ugly modern art, but she runs. And I've already gotten a lot of questions about it.

Edit: After doing a teensy bit of actually looking, I found adapters that will work to fit the hub. Now the only question is if they'll run against the spokes. Given that the adapters have 3 bolts rather than 9, I feel there's a good chance they can pass. Has anybody tried using 32 spoke wheels, though? Or bikes with alternative spoke arrangements? It'd be a bad day if I dropped $80+ on something that just didn't quite work.

 

[Tyler6357]

Okay, you have a speed hub (a hub wth different sprockets to change gears with the regular bike chain).The ones from Jake's and Manic Mechanic are designed to work on cruiser hubs of 1.5 inch diameter. If you have a speed hub with a smaller diameter you will have to get a different adapter. The only one I have found that fits speed hubs is THIS ONE. It will work on 1.19" diameter hubs and it comes with shims so you can use it on even smaller hubs. It has a 9 bolt configuration and is designed to work on wheels with 36 spokes. They sell sprockets that fit it but you can get cheap ones from BoyGoesFast on e-bay for $15 HERE This is the only sprocket adapter that I coud find that would work with my mountain bike 7 speed rear wheel hub. Which adapters are you talking about?

 

[crassius]

sounds like less work to swap out rear wheel for one with 36 spokes