GXH50 vs Chinese Clones

MotorbikeMike · #1 (**permalink**) 06-25-2008, 11:22 PM

Hi guys, I have a lil project that I would like to do, and am wondering if anyone has had experiance with the Honda 50 OHC vs the chinese clones that are so readily availble. I have a "Hung Shue" or whatever it is called, and it runs nicely, but am also unsure if it is a "push-rod" engine or OHC.

My JL Hoot Gearbox has (VERY) prematurely quit, and I would like some first-hand experiances with the GX VS the H-S China-contender. I have not yet opened the JL Gearbox, and do have a grube box, tho I think the shaft is a different size???

I do not intend to use either gearbox, but am interested in the engines potential, speed, power, noise, and reliability, tho I expect tha to be the same in all cases.

I am NOT interested in comparing with 2-strokes of any types, as my project requires a 4-stroke to be sucessful.

When the HS/JL combo was working, it seemed to have good accelleration, and seemed to get about 27-30 at WOT in about a block with a 275 lb rider.

I have much experiance with the 2-stroke "China-Fire" type engines, Whizzers, and a little with the H-S, and would sure like to hear from the other owners before leaping out and buying a Honda just to test it.

Most of you know that I'm in Sacramento, is anyone close?

TIA for your help in this, and sorry, no 2-stroke info is needed.

Mike
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**Bikeguy Joe** · #2 (**permalink**) 06-26-2008, 06:54 AM

Mike, you can tell if it's a push rod, ohv or ohc by looking at it.
Picture of you Feng Shuei engine?

MotorbikeMike · #3 (**permalink**) 06-26-2008, 07:58 AM

Hi Joe, yes if I could get out there and pull the valve cover off of the top I could easily tell, but I'm working full time, and handling the bike business, including repair and upgrades on customer bikes, and have not gottten out to begin work on the new project. I did also think that someone may be interested, and that somebody might already be familiar with the little clone,

Mike

HoughMade · #4 (**permalink**) 06-26-2008, 01:57 PM

I have the Honda GXH50 on my bike. It is a pushrod overhead valve design. I cannot compare it to the clone as I have never had the clone.

What I can say is this- I have disabled the governor. With a Grubee gearbox and a 48 tooth sprocket- I can exceed 35 mph...but at that speed the engine is way up in revs- not overrevved, but it's working (keep in mind that the JL Hoot and Grubee gearboxes have different ration so the same size sprocket does not mean the same thing with each gearbox). It pull extemely well from about 15 mph up and it cruises really happily at 25-30 mph. I weigh around 220-230 at 6'3".

As for noise, that's hard to quantify- I'd have to listen to the engines side by side. I really love the little Honda.

thatsdax · #5 (**permalink**) 06-26-2008, 04:31 PM

Yes.. The Chinese version is sort of a knock off. They look a lot alike, and the principle is the same. Internally they are a lot different. For starters, the crank is different, Bore and stroke is different as well. But a lot of design cues were taken from the Honda version. I sell Hondas, Yamahas, KTM's, KAW, Suzukis, Onans, BMWs, Kohler, Gillette, and more, and Now Titans. The Honda is a great motor. It is not better than the Titan. The Titan is pushrod with overhead valves. These are IC motors and have a very long Life.. Enjoy the ride...

MotorbikeMike · #6 (**permalink**) 06-28-2008, 12:41 AM

Hi Guys, thanks for the comments. I still want as much more info as possible. Due to some of the responses here, I have learned a couple of interesting things.

#1 the little clones, though nice (I have one), are rated 1.5 hp

#2 The Honda (more money, tho well made) is rated 2.5!!!!

IMHO an increase of .5 hp is major for what we are doing, wouldn't people here pay good money for a carb, or a pipe that would deliver .5 HP?

I'm excited, a full horse is an amazing bonus! Soooo... this morning I ordered a gx50 from small engine warehouse. I have a grube gearbox from an earlier deal, and I have this little bike (see pic below). I think I have put on a front brake, if not, I surely will.

This little bike did a solid 30mpg, with JL gearbox, and the 1.5 Hua Sheng. I had set it up with the 44, which will not be appropriate for the Grube box? I always pedaled off the start, but when I let people test ride her it seems they NEVER did, tho I had told them to! It did, however, croak VERY early, some sort of a GB failure.

I am not up to date on the mix in the gearbox, for the JL the mix that had worked best was, packed with pale yellow Hi-Temp Disk brake grease (automotive), and then, when she started chattering, I found that if I mixed some SAE 40wt with the DBG, it would licquify into a very nice slurry which would continue to melt down, and continually lube the clutch, without bubbling out of the vented bolt at the rear of the box like the stinky 90/140 Hypoid did.

My goal is NOT to do the Grube box as a final, but to compare the H-S with the JL, to the Honda with the Grube box.

I know about searching, but since this thread is about the 4-stroke, and I'm adding (temp only) the grube, how would you guys suggust to set it up?

I probably have a 50th sprocket around here, but never had a larger one, and I can still make the same mix?

Mike

thatsdax · #7 (**permalink**) 06-28-2008, 01:56 AM

the 35cc 4 stroke is rated at 1.5 hp. I am working on getting a carrier version of this ready.. The 50cc Titan is rated at 2.41 hp or 1.8kw depending on Altitude and pressure density. Actual displacement is around 48cc for Titan.. Thanks.. Enjoy the ride..

MotorbikeMike · #8 (**permalink**) 06-29-2008, 12:53 PM

Hi Guys, More info on the Honda.

As I cannot seem to find spec pages for the other clones could someone post MFG spec pages for every other 4-stroke 49cc Clone that they can find?

From another website Honda 50

Honda Horizontal OHV Engine — 50cc, GX Series, 5/8in. x 1 1/4in. Shaft, Model# GXH50UQXA

The Honda 50cc GX Series OHV mini commercial-grade engine is designed for the most demanding commercial applications. It has set an industry standard for reliability and durability.

Overhead Valve design offers cooler, fuel-efficient operation and cast iron cylinder sleeve provides longer service life. The GX is reliable, easy starting and quiet running. Meets EPA and CARB emission levels standards. This legendary engine has earned the reputation as the preferred engine for construction equipment.

Designed for high-RPM applications.

Honda 50cc GX OHV air-cooled, 4-stroke, horizontal engine Horizontal Shaft: 5/8in. x 1 1/4in. tapped 1/4-28

Applications: high-RPM Historical rating 2.5 HP CCW Rotation

Fuel Tank Capacity: 1.21-qt. Oil Capacity: .63-qt. 7800 RPM

Recoil Start Transistorized magneto ignition

Approximate Mounting Base Dimensions: 4.4in. x 2.1in.

Flange Mount Bolt Circle: 4.17

PTO Height: 3.35in.

Low Oil Alert™

Semi dry element air cleaner Automatic decompression for easy starting

Heavy-duty ball bearing supported crankshaft

Cast iron cylinder bore

Double walled heavy-duty tank with in tank fuel strainer

Manual throttle and choke

Remote wire throttle and choke conversion possible with additional components

Dimensions: 8.9in.L x 10.8in.W x 13.9in.H

This was all jammed together, I opened it up to be more easily read.

Who can post H-S and others?

Mike

Fosscati · #9 (**permalink**) 07-06-2008, 07:47 AM

Here are the specs for the Hua Sheng FGs to compare against the Honda GXH50cc

thatsdax · #10 (**permalink**) 07-17-2008, 10:40 PM

The HS and Titan XC are EPA and CARB II 2008 Compliant. Honda rates their motors at 1.8kw and HS are rated at 1.4KW. Both Honda and HS are IC motors. Industrial Commercial. They are manufactured for Commercial Industrial applications and are both very reliable. From my Testing experience over the decades, I can tell you for a Fact that Honda HP ratings are accurate to the T. American Engines such as Kohler and Onan were always under rated with no exceptions. There were times where I would put double the KW load on Onans and Kohler enignes before they would start to load up. Onan and Kohler were and still are the Industry standard for IC usage. Still are. Not Honda , Titan, or HS or any Asian motor was ever considered the standard of the Industry. It was always American Onan with Kohler a close Second. Cryco also produced some super IC motors with big cubes and with a turbo and hydraulic governor produced some huge numbers at very high altitudes and pressures. Honda was always the cheaper and weaker motor of choice. As was Kawasaki. The Asian motors such as Hondas and Kaw ran a high 3600 rpm governed IC usage. Onan and Kohler were 1,800 rpm. I sold a lot of both. The Onan and Kohlers were much more expensive than the Aisan versions if you can call them that. The asian versions were designed to accomplish the same job but with a different engine rpm. . I have not checked the past few years to see if Honda pricing has moved up closer . I can tell you this. It used to be that Honda was good and cheap. Now it seems as though Honda is still good but not cheap anymore. I just bought a piston and ring for my Honda CR250. It set me back almost 200usd. No kidding. A front Rotor for my Honda V65 is over 200usd. Just for a Rotor !!! A Rotor for my Harley is 65usd. What has happened to Honda? I also bought 2 tank bolts for my honda. 2usd a bolt ? what the? I told the Honda guy this must be 400 percent mark up !! At any rate. Out of protest, I may get out of the Honda business. I still have my Honda V65 Sabre with Honda line. I may keep it. I may sell it and buy a BMW K100. I love the wicked power of the Sabre. At any rate.. That is what I know from Decades of engine service, building, testing, engineering, manufacturing, and selling at low and very high altitudes. Man..I am getting old.. lol.. Enjoy the ride..