"MotorNewsBoy"

tyrslider · #11 (**permalink**) 10-30-2009, 09:42 AM

I'm not really planning on running it w/o the shroud; gonna run w/o the fin covers though. In Arizona during the summer I might be concerned about overheating. I live in Seattle ( I think we have < 100 days > 70 deg a yr). It's acually really easy to find out if there's gonna be a problem by running temp tests w/ and w/o the shrouding using a laser thermometer.

These motors are designed to be run stationary in the hot sun all day long; for that they need shrouding. For "most" of our purposes they are not running for long periods of time and very little at all w/o moving and most of us are lucky to see many hot days.

Thanks for the concerns and the heads up though. When I get both 4stroke bikes going I'll do temp tests on both and give results.

Dmar there will be a freewheel on the pedal crank a'la SBP.

Kevron it is a 98cc 2.5 hp "flathead" Lifan motor

42blue15 · #12 (**permalink**) 10-30-2009, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyrslider

.... In fact that's when I realised that Worksman wheels (at least mine) are not laced up properly (<<<, and not <<>). Hmm... kinda reads like "Airplane" under Over, over Under, vector Victor; you get the idea. ....

I bought a Worksman new once, so I have seen the OEM wheels.

The spokes on mine were crossed properly, but not woven--if that is what you mean.
Regular bicycle spokes are almost always woven and crossed (-unless they are radial in which case they can't be woven, cause they don't cross).

I would bet the Worksman spoke method is intentional, as weaving such thick spokes would be difficult and generally not productive. ....And it has an advantage for motorbikers using rag-joint sprocket attachment, in that the rear spokes do not touch where they cross, so there is no problem of them rubbing together and wearing themselves thin and breaking at that point.
~

Clotho · #13 (**permalink**) 10-30-2009, 07:32 PM

Ok, That sounds like it should have a decent chance of working. I would break the engine in on regular oil with all the shrouds on and then switch to synthetic as soon as the rings seated well. Synthetic has greater tolerance to heat and the superior lubrication should help keep the temp down a bit.

tyrslider · #14 (**permalink**) 10-30-2009, 09:48 PM

42Blue, I respectfully disagree. It is not so much intentional as it is for a reason. That they are laced by a machine (In Taiwan, I suspect, where the rim and hub were manufactured). $ is the reason. Having laced many wheels myself w/ 11 to 15 guage spokes and given the length of 26" wheel spokes there is no difficulty in interlacing the final cross. Another thing you'll observe in machine built wheels is that the spokes go the same direction on both sides unlike hand built that are opposite. Motorcycle wheels are different in that they are all oriented essentially "elbow" in at the hub, where as, on cross pattern bicycle wheels, they are alternating (elbow in, elbow out) at the hub. Apparantly the machines fully tighten ea. spoke 1 at a time, all the way, rather than loosely assembling all and tightening evenly (especially damaging to aluminum rims). If you look at the whole thing closely w/ a critical eye you'll see that it is not right and that a wheel w smaller spokes laced the same way is inferior. Interlacing the final cross in a 3 cross pattern bicycle wheel is important, for many reasons, not the least of which is longevity.

That being said, the Worksman wheels are over built for their designed purpose "going slow w/ heavy loads" and going fast won't be a detriment. They are far and away better than the Mall Wart crap and they look really cool on a motorbike!

Clotho, I'm w/ you on the break in good lookin out! Also you aroused me into action! The shroud/no shroud division. At my day job I work in the thermal test equipment industry. I'm no Thermal Dynamics Engineer but I spoke w/ one of our engineers today and he gave me some ideas for simple tests that should give some real data concerning shrouds vs. not. We have access to some pretty cool test equipment. For example, I can test windspeed in the shroud and get an average by measuring in several spots. In the coming week or so we'll be using windspeed sensors and I'll be able to do some testing. In addition I'll test them in application, under load. I'll at least be able to conclude it for myself.

Bottom bracket, tires etc on the way. Finishing bearing carriers and more assembly this wknd!
Stay Tuned!

Clotho · #15 (**permalink**) 10-31-2009, 02:08 AM

Excellent!

That kind of data will be really helpful for others. The cooling system on both the 2 strokes and the 4 strokes are critical components to the motor. You can't radically compromise this and not expect to have some problems. I know that on the 2 stroke China motors the cooling fins are just barely adequate in many cases and they provide much more surface area than the 4 strokes with the shrouds off. If you want an idea of what the cooling fins should really look like take a look a one of the Morinni motors.

It is possible to increase the surface area of the fins by welding and grinding them. I have seen it done on motorcycles. There are also other things that can be done like using synthetic oil.

tyrslider · #16 (**permalink**) 11-01-2009, 11:11 AM

Fins need to be larger on 2 strokes cause they generate more heat so the Morini motor is a good example for 2 strokes but not 4. You may have a point though in that they could have reduced fin size in lieu of the blower.

Got my JS bearings mounted and lightened the motor reduction gear!

tyrslider · #17 (**permalink**) 11-06-2009, 12:17 AM

Been workin on the tank here 'n there; made a SS bung and plain steel spout today. Think I'll take a little more length off the bung. I think it's looking nice though.

I'll be welding the tank up this wknd. I'm learnin' a lot w/ this one!

Dan · #18 (**permalink**) 11-06-2009, 04:12 PM

TS, was trying to remember what thread the "hog" was on. Cracks me up

That Tank is awesome. Whole build is.

If it were going on a more vintage appearing bike, could you imagine a site glass with a goose neck at the top working as the vent? All brass and glass. (Well tubing) I got a thing for polished brass.

Again, great build.

tyrslider · #19 (**permalink**) 11-09-2009, 12:01 AM

Got the tank welded today. Maybe a few fills and build ups, some grinding and bodywork away from being ready to paint. Bolted it to the frame and it cinches up nice and tightly. Did not get to the cranks today! Where does the time go?

mekano · #20 (**permalink**) 11-10-2009, 05:28 PM

nice work! When Im grown I will make a tank that follows the bend of the upper frame. But that is far away, I dont have any skills, equipment for bending or a welder. Just dreaming. I would love to have your tank.