Motorized Bicycle Engine Kit Forum
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Search Titles Only

Sponsors
To be a sponsor Contact Us
Our Forums


Go Back   Motorized Bicycle Engine Kit Forum > Motorized Bicycle > Motorized Bicycle General Discussion

Motorized Bicycle General Discussion Topics on bicycle engine kits, help articles, repair and modifications for your motorized bicycles

Need mental and ratio help! Please!


Discussion at Motorized Bicycle Engine Kit Forum in the Motorized Bicycle General Discussion forum. Ok, so here I go again. I hope you guys aren't getting sick of me yet. I think, yes ...
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2008, 07:15 PM
conradcliff's Avatar
Motorized Bicycle Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Tampa, Fla.
Posts: 69
Question Need mental and ratio help! Please!

Ok, so here I go again. I hope you guys aren't getting sick of me yet. I think, yes think, I have things pretty much figured out. But my big issue now is the ratio calculations. At first I thought I had it figured out but then I thought to myself: "Hmm, you know...the diameter of a #40 sprocket with the same tooth count is going to be nearly twice that of a #25 sprocket. I bet that's going to completely screw me up." so now I'm back to trying to figure out these ratios. I think I have a method for the calculations that should work but it looks like it's a bit off.

What I figure is that instead of going by tooth count I can go by outside diameter instead for the ratios.

Now, before I go any further, let me try and explain my setup so that you can have an idea about what I'm planning on. Picture this: My engine is rack mounted, it has a 6 tooth #25 sprocket being driven off of its left side (note: to my knowledge no one makes a #40 sprocket for these bell housings). The chain from the 6 tooth sprocket on the engine runs just forward and slightly down from that to the left side of a jackshaft to a 28 tooth #25 sprocket. On the right side of that jackshaft is a 10 tooth #40 sprocket. A chain runs from this sprocket down and slightly forward to a 44 tooth #40 sprocket. Attached to the same freewheel as the 44 tooth sprocket is a 38 tooth #40 sprocket. This runs back to a 14 tooth gear which is attached to a 26" OD wheel. Basically just picture the SBP setup with a rear mounted 4 stroke engine.

Here are two different versions of basically the same calculations. One uses the tooth counts and one has the outside diameters. (Note: the tooth counts for the #25 sprockets found on the engine and the left side [input side] of the jackshaft have been reduced by about half to mimic the approximate size of the same OD #40 sprockets. A 6 tooth #25 sprocket is approximately equal in outside diameter to a 3 tooth #40 sprocket and a 28 tooth #25 sprocket is approximately equal to a 13.28 tooth #40 sprocket [even though 13.28 tooth sprockets don't actually exist])



As you can see the final calculations are off by a moderate margin.

What I'm aiming for is an approximate speed calculation of 40MPH when I'm shifted into my final gear, which is 14 teeth.

One other difference here is that I had originally shot for 40MPH at 6000RPMs taking into consideration the HP an torque curves of the GXH50 and pocket bike engines. Now that I'm probably going to be utilizing the Titan engine I fear that the max HP and torque range are going to lie within a different RPM range, which would necessitate different calculations entirely..oh well.

So what I really need to know is what size #25 sprocket I need for the input side (left side) of my jackshaft in order to reach 40mph at 6000RPMs...or whatever RPM range you think the Titan has the most power at. And I understand that the Titan may not be able to get me to 40mph..that's ok, I still would like to keep that as the target speed for the given(or optimal if you know it's different for the Titan) RPM range.

Here is a link to the sprocket catalog I got my measurements from.

Here is a link to the ratio calculator I made with the help from the guys at maxtorque. (If you find any problems with it let me know because I just sort of figured it out without any prior knowledge about ratio calculations)

So, I guess that's about that..thanks again for putting up with me and for all the help you guys have provided thus far..hopefully I can get this figured out without having to buy 10 different sprockets to get the right one. :grin5:

P.s. Although I appreciate the concern..let's try to keep the discussion about "40mph being too fast" to a minimum if we can..
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2008, 07:55 PM
Ghost0's Avatar
Motorized Bicycle Elite Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Bellingham, WA
Posts: 536
Default Re: Need mental and ratio help! Please!

There should be no difference in your ratio calculation do to the different sprocket types. This would only come into effect if you were trying to use a 6t #25 to a 40t #40. Then you have a problem. But a 40t/6t for a #25 chain is 6.6 to 1 and a 40t/6t for a #40 chain is still 6.6 to 1 so don't let the different sprocket/chain types mess with you.
__________________
Design is easy, execution the hard part.
www.sickbikeparts.com
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2008, 08:48 PM
conradcliff's Avatar
Motorized Bicycle Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Tampa, Fla.
Posts: 69
Default Re: Need mental and ratio help! Please!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost0 View Post
There should be no difference in your ratio calculation do to the different sprocket types. This would only come into effect if you were trying to use a 6t #25 to a 40t #40. Then you have a problem. But a 40t/6t for a #25 chain is 6.6 to 1 and a 40t/6t for a #40 chain is still 6.6 to 1 so don't let the different sprocket/chain types mess with you.
Thanks for the reply..that would all be well and good if I didn't have two different sprocket types on the same jackshaft. So the ratio calculation for the jackshaft is where the trouble is and that's why I need to figure out what the size of the input sprocket needs to be.

Thanks again though.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2008, 08:57 PM
Ghost0's Avatar
Motorized Bicycle Elite Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Bellingham, WA
Posts: 536
Default Re: Need mental and ratio help! Please!

It still doesn't make a difference, you still have a #25 driving a #25, then you have a #40 driving a #40. Trust me on this.
__________________
Design is easy, execution the hard part.
www.sickbikeparts.com
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2008, 09:33 PM
Creative Engineering's Avatar
MANIC Mechanic
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Clearwater, FL
Posts: 1,122
Default Re: Need mental and ratio help! Please!

Ghosto is right!

It's easy to get confused.

Just look at each part of the drive separately, (as it's own entity), and you'll find that it isn't so complicated.

Ditch the software and work it out, (methodically), with a calculator.

Jim
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2008, 09:37 PM
Creative Engineering's Avatar
MANIC Mechanic
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Clearwater, FL
Posts: 1,122
Default Re: Need mental and ratio help! Please!

Better yet,

Since you are in Tampa, bring it to the shop and i'll help you with it...No charge if it's on a weekend!

Jim
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2008, 09:45 PM
Motorized Bicycle Elite Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 431
Default Re: Need mental and ratio help! Please!

Conradcliff, the reason for your second calculator's error is because you only have THREE teeth on the clutch sprocket.

FWIW, follow the general consensus here, but research where the Titan engine's max torque and hp range is. Then gear for that.

In quarter-mile racing, they recommend that you overgear slightly at the top end. However, since you are sustaining this top end speed, ya don't want to overgear.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2008, 10:04 PM
Motorized Bicycle Elite Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 431
Default Re: Need mental and ratio help! Please!

Change the engine sprocket to 6t and the first input jackshaft sprocket to 24t. You'll arrive at a negligible fraction off of the first calculator.

You will arrive at 6.87:1 on first calculator and 6.85 on second calculator, which is WAYYY too high of a gear for 6,000rpm/7,000rpm engine range.

The last sprocket combo from crankset to rear drive sprocket is NOT a gear reduction.

For 40mph at 6,000rpm, gear ratio should be 11.6:1.

For 40mph at 7,000rpm, gear ratio should be 13.55:1.

more info later.

Last edited by 5-7HEAVEN : 12-05-2008 at 10:15 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2008, 10:05 PM
Saddletramp1200's Avatar
Motorized Bicycle Elite Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Corpus Christi, Texas
Posts: 823
Default Re: Need mental and ratio help! Please!

I am most likely wrong, but I may see what is getting at. I have seen a sprocket with 25 teeth that was 4 inches IN DIA. I have seen a sprocket with 25 teeth 4 FEET tall. Is this what your saying?
__________________
Only Bikers know why dogs love to stick their heads out of car windows,
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2008, 10:23 PM
Creative Engineering's Avatar
MANIC Mechanic
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Clearwater, FL
Posts: 1,122
Default Re: Need mental and ratio help! Please!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saddletramp1200 View Post
I am most likely wrong, but I may see what is getting at. I have seen a sprocket with 25 teeth that was 4 inches IN DIA. I have seen a sprocket with 25 teeth 4 FEET tall. Is this what your saying?

You're not wrong at all!

It makes no difference what size chain is used...as far as ratio is concerned.

Jim
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:09 AM.


Sponsors
To be a sponsor Contact Us
Donations accepted!

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.1.0
Motorized Bicycle Engine Kit Forum