Motorized Bicycle Engine Kit Forum
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Search Titles Only

Sponsors
Donations accepted to help with server fees and other expenses. Thank you!


Go Back   Motorized Bicycle Engine Kit Forum > Motorized Bicycle > Motor Bicycle Safety

Motor Bicycle Safety Share safety tips for motorized bicycles. Some of these bicycle engines will reach great speeds and need respect.

Listen Up Young & Old


Discussion at Motorized Bicycle Engine Kit Forum in the Motor Bicycle Safety forum. My chemistry-minded approach from school has impressed me to do many calculations. Molecular units (moles) are the standard measurment. ...
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 05-27-2008, 01:45 AM
cityevader's Avatar
Master Motorized Bicycle Builder
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Santa Cruiz, CA
Posts: 118
Default Re: Listen Up Young & Old

My chemistry-minded approach from school has impressed me to do many calculations.

Molecular units (moles) are the standard measurment. A mole of oxygen weighs 32 grams, and a mole of gasoline weighs 114 grams. And a pound of oxygen at 1 atmosphere pressure (sea level) is about 90 gallons in volume. A pound of gasoline is about .1666gallons.

With the perfect air/fuel ratio of 14.7:1 (by WEIGHT) to have the most rapid and complete combustion (explosion) with 1 gallon of gasoline we would need 2,226 gallons of PURE oxygen. But the Earth's atmosphere is 21% oxygen, so we'd need about 10,600 gallons of typical "air" that is all around us, in order to "explode" 1 gallon of gasoline.

That is assuming that the liquid gasoline is perfectly vaporized into gaseous form along with the gaseous oxygen. There is nothing close to these proportions on the highways and byways that I'm aware of. Do you have a motorbike with an 10,600 gallon fuel tank with one gallon of vaporized gasoline in it? Do you have a car or truck or bus or airplane with that?

Of course, you can still have smaller explosions within a 1 gallon gas tank, but there would have to be .000094 gallons of gasoline to the remainder of atmospheric air to have the proper air/fuel ratio. Fortunately, inside of gas tanks there is WAAAAYYYYY more fuel than air, so it cannot possibly explode, but only burn (if left continually exposed to after after the ignition required).
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 05-27-2008, 02:48 AM
Jemma Hawtrey's Avatar
Master Motorized Bicycle Builder
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Essex, UK
Posts: 291
Default Re: Listen Up Young & Old

There is no way I take risks with anything when dealing with petrol but I have had some close shaves - not related to bikes though so maybe a little off topic - if so I apologise...

First was with my old humber - myself, my partner and her daughter are in the car and coming off a roundabout - the engine starts to sound weird, not much, just a little off (I have a good mechanical ear...). Then all **** breaks loose and the motor starts to sound like a B-17 after a bad week. Its pitch dark and freezing so I stop, get out and pop the bonnet with the motor idling and see this little blue flickering light... I got my partner to switch off and I investigated... to find the engine had thrown out number 1 plug which was happily twinkling away sans the rest of the engine. I gingerly replaced it by touch (can you say burnt fingers...) restarted and continued on...

It was only in the morning when I checked again that I found that the plug had landed on the plastic fuel-line downstream of the fuel pump and almost incinerated the three of us. The scary thing was there was no way we could have gotten the baby out in time if it had gone up - she was securely trussed up in a child seat

The next time was at a classic car rally when a guy pulled up next to us in a mint Snipe 80 - and a miasma of neat petrol fumes - his steel fuel line to the carb had fractured and was spraying neat petrol onto the exhaust manifold... he'd been smelling petrol for 20 miles and hadnt bothered to investigate. Took four of us an hour to cobble a fix together so he could get home.

NEVER, EVER take a risk with petrol or any other inflammable chemical - I have even seen burns from someone throwing home made mead on a fire as part of a winters night celebration - the stuff practically exploded!!

As an MB aside - as regards safety the chengines and similar with a separate fuel tank are better on safety as you arent pouring petrol right next to a possible hot engine... GEBE owners beware...

Safe journey

Jemma xx
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 05-27-2008, 06:43 AM
deacon's Avatar
Master Motorized Bicycle Builder
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: north carolina
Posts: 3,844
Default Re: Listen Up Young & Old

this might turn into an emotional issue. I have always heard that a full gas tank will not burn or explode but one with a few drops in it will. Unless someone explains why all those government tests I have seen were the result of hollywood C4, I'm gonna fix my fuel leaks and be careful with my gas tank.
__________________
visit my blog for Riding in the hood,... The home brew bike journal....http://frictiondrivebicycles.blogspot.com/ The deacon's fiction
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 05-27-2008, 09:12 AM
cityevader's Avatar
Master Motorized Bicycle Builder
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Santa Cruiz, CA
Posts: 118
Default Re: Listen Up Young & Old

Quote:
Originally Posted by deacon View Post
this might turn into an emotional issue. I have always heard that a full gas tank will not burn or explode but one with a few drops in it will. Unless someone explains why all those government tests I have seen were the result of hollywood C4, I'm gonna fix my fuel leaks and be careful with my gas tank.
Perfectly said.
We all agree gas is bad bad bad when uncontrolled, and absolutely more than mere common sense should be used around it.
Especially if you have an "empty" tank and are blowing it out, right next to an ignition source, as this would be the ideal time for for an explosion.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 05-27-2008, 09:24 AM
Pablo's Avatar
Master Bike Builder & Forum Sponsor
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Duvall, WA PNW
Posts: 1,704
Default Re: Listen Up Young & Old

The safety points here are well taken. I'm not riding anymore until I fix my leaking cap.

A crotchful of gas is a terrible thing to lose.
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 05-27-2008, 09:33 AM
Jemma Hawtrey's Avatar
Master Motorized Bicycle Builder
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Essex, UK
Posts: 291
Default Re: Listen Up Young & Old

A full tank of fuel lit from the filler neck will burn - if you are insane enough to try it. The reason it burns and doesnt go up and take the garage with it is because in order for petrol to burn at all it needs to vaporise at the flash point.

In a motor there are two ratios that are important - mixture and compression. the stoichiometric pressure for petrol is 14.1:1, ie a compression ratio of 14.1:1 will give you the maximum power release - however this is hard to obtain and requires high pressure injection systems so most engine designers tend to go the easy way and go for a medium high compression (around 10-11:1) and increase the rpms using such tricks as desmo valves or pneumatic valve springs (formula 1). The other method is increasing the swept displacement by boring out and fitting oversize pistons and hardware. In the case of the Rootes group 1725cc engine a compression of 9.7:1 and rebore giving 1800cc is possible which gives up to another 10hp or so

Then there is the matter of mixture. In order for any fuel to burn it needs to be mixed with the right amount of oxidant - in this case oxygen from the air. Too lean and the mixture burns hot, you get cooked plugs and if left too long valves and general overheating. Too rich and you get a cold burn which in older engines caused coking up and that blackish smoke when throttled. Both of these conditions reduce the power of the flash burn and therefore engine power.

Now, if you have a petrol tank on your MB and you leave the machine in the open in the sun you will notice that if you open the cap (if unvented) you will hear a hiss and smell fuel. What you have in that situation is both a degree of compression and a fuel air mixture... and its this that is the explosive combination.

It is a myth that only an almost empty fuel tank is the only one that will explode, it merely means that when it does go up you get the most bang for your buck as it were and it does the most damage to anything in its immediate surroundings. As long as there is petrol vapour in air there will be some sort of explosive reaction - it is merely how much fuel/air mix that controls how bad the bang will be.

If you have seen aircraft in films that are on fire for whatever reason you will notice that alot of the time at first the fire seems merely to spread and flow back - even when its location means its likely to be fuel fed - this is because the high speed airstream keeps the burn area away from where the pressurised fuel vapour is escaping - the explosion usually happens when the airstream slows enough for the burn point to enter the area containing pressurised vapour and creates a flash burn or explosion.

This is a reason why if you have a fuel leak on a MB at speed it is more likely to burn with a flame if it ignites - and why given the same situation you are more likely to get a much more unpleasant explosion when the bike is at standstill...

sorry for the essay

Jemma xx
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 05-27-2008, 10:00 AM
deacon's Avatar
Master Motorized Bicycle Builder
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: north carolina
Posts: 3,844
Default Re: Listen Up Young & Old

don't be sorry.. I am accused of being verbose I need the company...

Ps throw out that fishtank line and get a proper line from the auto parts store it is a couple of bucks well spent. After a couple of days in the outside shed mine leaked like a sieve
__________________
visit my blog for Riding in the hood,... The home brew bike journal....http://frictiondrivebicycles.blogspot.com/ The deacon's fiction

Last edited by deacon : 05-27-2008 at 10:03 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 05-28-2008, 08:42 PM
Master Motorized Bicycle Builder
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: north bend wa.
Posts: 354
Default Re: Listen Up Young & Old

its only leaking gas between his legs. let it go.
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 05-29-2008, 05:25 PM
Bikeguy Joe's Avatar
MODERATOR
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ashtabula county, Ohio
Posts: 4,245
Thumbs up Re: Listen Up Young & Old

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jemma Hawtrey View Post
A full tank of fuel lit from the filler neck will burn - if you are insane enough to try it........and why given the same situation you are more likely to get a much more unpleasant explosion when the bike is at standstill...

sorry for the essay

Jemma xx

Very well said, no need for apology.
__________________
If it ain't broke, and you mess with it long enough, it will be.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:07 PM.


Advertisers

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.1.0
Motorized Bicycle Engine Kit Forum