Head - slight compression loss through gap

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Predator303

New Member
Apr 26, 2012
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San Juan, Puerto Rico
I just rebuilt my previous engine (some might know it, my new GT5 was absolutely junk) and it runs great except that even though i was grinding head and cylinder top carefully and even, after 2 minutes the head seems to bend and a little cap is on the backside to the carb and little oil gets out, not much, but the power loss is noticeable.

I already made it even several times and now I am wondering what else I could do. Any suggestions?

Does anybody know if those cold welding products work to fill the small gap? I hardly doubt it but who knows.
 

PAracer

New Member
Sep 14, 2012
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Steelton, PA
I would not recommend adding a cold weld product to that area of the engine.

How did you go about making sure that it is level?

I preper to use a sheet of sandpaper layed across a mirror. Why a mirror? Because if the mirror shows a non-wavey image, then you know that it is flat.

220 grit for heavy material removal. 400 for finishing.

You can do both the head and the cylinder.

I like to use a light smear of ultra copper RTV (must be for hi-temp applications). Not to create a gasket, but to act as a bonding agent between the cylinder, head gasket, and the head. It should be a light enough application that it does not squeeze out when you torque the head down.
 

PAracer

New Member
Sep 14, 2012
284
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Steelton, PA
Yeah. I doubt you get enough squish out of the raw metal gasket to create a good seal. It needs something.

I use it on the intake manifold, exhaust manifold, and also as a glue for the plastic spacer on my cns carb.
 

Nashville Kat

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2009
1,501
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48
Jacksonville, Florida
The heads and head gaskets for these are reallly terrible- designed to have a problem I think

The gasket usually doesn't even come close to the diameter of the cylinder itself- the head rests on the small circular ring and when then combined with the flimsy gasket- only about a half of the stupid little ring and the gasket make contact to seal the head-

I have one gasket on my 50 out of the three gaskets I have that actually comes up to the cylinder edge and crosses the entire raised ring on the head. I have another head that was leaking I've now filed completely flat- completely free of the elevated ring- I totally filed it down but as yet have to try it out- I'm sure it will work great though now with ANY of the gaskets - may even raise the compression bit and slightly cuts down the cubic inches- the plug will still clear but maybe not any long one! At any rate, the head should now use the ENTIRE gasket to seal- not just half the surface of the raised ring!

I was gonna post a thread, but have been busy.

Here is a picture of what I mean about the gaskets- only one out of three I have for my 50 cc get near to the diameter of the cylinder- this one here is a full 1/8" inch away and covers only HALF the raised area

The second picture shows the head with the ring not quite filed away
 

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Predator303

New Member
Apr 26, 2012
648
0
0
San Juan, Puerto Rico
I would not recommend adding a cold weld product to that area of the engine.

How did you go about making sure that it is level?

I preper to use a sheet of sandpaper layed across a mirror. Why a mirror? Because if the mirror shows a non-wavey image, then you know that it is flat.

220 grit for heavy material removal. 400 for finishing.

You can do both the head and the cylinder.

I like to use a light smear of ultra copper RTV (must be for hi-temp applications). Not to create a gasket, but to act as a bonding agent between the cylinder, head gasket, and the head. It should be a light enough application that it does not squeeze out when you torque the head down.
I was grinding it on the floor on a glass plate. It was 100% even. I just took off probably 1/3 or 1/2 millimeter from the head and it seems to be sealed now on the gasket. Finally close to the pwer the old engine had, and sound. Compression is really good now, but this d*mn gt5 cylinder gets everything so hot. Thats the only part left I used from the new engine.. I really dont understand it. Even the carb gets hot not from the engine heat. I am going tomorrow to see if I can get colder plugs.
 
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Predator303

New Member
Apr 26, 2012
648
0
0
San Juan, Puerto Rico
The heads and head gaskets for these are reallly terrible- designed to have a problem I think

The gasket usually doesn't even come close to the diameter of the cylinder itself- the head rests on the small circular ring and when then combined with the flimsy gasket- only about a half of the stupid little ring and the gasket make contact to seal the head-

I have one gasket on my 50 out of the three gaskets I have that actually comes up to the cylinder edge and crosses the entire raised ring on the head. I have another head that was leaking I've now filed completely flat- completely free of the elevated ring- I totally filed it down but as yet have to try it out- I'm sure it will work great though now with ANY of the gaskets - may even raise the compression bit and slightly cuts down the cubic inches- the plug will still clear but maybe not any long one! At any rate, the head should now use the ENTIRE gasket to seal- not just half the surface of the raised ring!

I was gonna post a thread, but have been busy.

Here is a picture of what I mean about the gaskets- only one out of three I have for my 50 cc get near to the diameter of the cylinder- this one here is a full 1/8" inch away and covers only HALF the raised area

The second picture shows the head with the ring not quite filed away

Yeah thats true. My ring was almost gone when I bought the (old) engine (with the bike I then rebuilt) and who ever used the engine top before me, didnt even use a gasket, but now I took off the rest of the ring completely. The GT5 I got 2 weeks ago had a much higher ring, so that the head would only sit on the ring instead of the whole surface wich caused the same problem. A tiny gap in the front and read of the head where little oil and sure big part of the compression was lost.

I bought another gasket kit because I had to open and close the head so often because of the compression problems I had with the new engine, that in the end the piston hit the head or gasket. So now I am using 2 bottom gaskets, one head gasket and the head is flat and clean almost polished flat.

Now I just have to do something about the heat problem. I moved the clip for the needle from 2 to 4 because it was too lean I think. I want to make sure the engine gets more fuel for cooling. I dont mind wasting more gas.

BTW whats the 3rd pic? haha
 
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PAracer

New Member
Sep 14, 2012
284
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0
Steelton, PA
BTW. The Puch hi compression heads from treatland have a very nice sealing area. Much better quality than the HT head. Cheap too.
 

PAracer

New Member
Sep 14, 2012
284
0
0
Steelton, PA
I am using the 50cc hi-hi compression head. I currently use two head gaskets to raise the head off of the piston, but I might try dropping one next time I have the head off the bike.
 

PAracer

New Member
Sep 14, 2012
284
0
0
Steelton, PA
I can't say. I installed the head on my first build before I ever fired it up the first time. All I can say is that it runs. I'm using the kit supplied parts including the spark plug. And I've only got a couple miles on the engine so far. I have nothing bad to say about the part.
 

PAracer

New Member
Sep 14, 2012
284
0
0
Steelton, PA
I do, but its fuzzy due to low light. Check out the link I posted to the Puch head thread (page 3). Looks like my bike is wearing a hat :)
 

PAracer

New Member
Sep 14, 2012
284
0
0
Steelton, PA
It will fit. I have 8mm studs too. I drilled out the stud holes with a hand drill and a 8.5mm bit. You will also have trouble using the original hardware to secure the head. I posted a shopping list in the thread that will get the parts you need to do that.