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harry76
04-16-2011, 02:15 AM
Hi all.... My mate gave me a beach cruiser which i stripped and let rust up a little. I plan to use 1 of 2 98cc Villiers engines (different years) i have. I think i will use a 20 inch rim held to the rear rim via brackets, and mount a pulley on the front and use a vintage style hand clutch that puts tension on the belt. I think if i put about a 70mm diam pulley on the front it will get me in the 35mph range, but how do i know if it will be ridable at that gearing? If it will have enough torque? I dont know that much about these engines so any help would be appreciated. Cheers
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/bikes/P3110067.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/bikes/P3110068.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/bikes/P3110060.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/bikes/P3110059.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/bikes/P3110058.jpg

harry76
04-17-2011, 02:40 AM
Dunno yet whether i will leave it looking ratty or possibly paint it (either white or the color of the rims). I have to make the tank from the cardboard cutout i have. I thought about stretching it but i am happy with the stance ATM. Just need to find a lower stem.... i made a disc brake bracket for the rear so now have disc brakes, and i was going to see if i could make a cover for the disc to make it look like a drum brake. If that doesnt work ill just cover with a racing number, also may make some truss rods for the fork. Im a slow worker but will try and post pics as i go....

silverbear
04-17-2011, 05:33 AM
Welcome to the forum. That's going to be a great bike. I think the Villiers you have mounted up looks perfect. Some of those had a kick start didn't they? About when would that engine have been made, do you know? Very interesting head on it. 98cc should put out a fair amount of power, I would think. The seat is a good choice, too. Building slow with frequent staring is good. Take your time, I'd say as the results will be well worth it.
SB

Mike B
04-17-2011, 11:34 AM
That motor looks cool.

fasteddy
04-17-2011, 01:37 PM
Your bike is looking great. The motor is a plus.

Don't know much about gas engines since we are held to 500W electric motors here in Canada to be legal.

Really looking forward to your build up of your bike as everyone else is so lots of photos please.

Steve.

harry76
04-17-2011, 04:57 PM
Haha Silverbear im glad im not the only one that "builds slow with frequent staring". In fact i do more staring then bulding but like you said thats half the fun. I will try and find the years out of the engines, supposedly the year is stamped on them. I agree about using the engine that is fitted in the pic. looks much better but the other does already have a 45 degree manifold to get the carby out of the way which if i run a 20" rim and belt i may need. Alternatively i will have to make a 45 degree manifold piece. Some are kickstart i believe. The engine thats fitted has a sprocket on the flywheel side (maybe this was for a kickstart). Ive had this motor running and it does sound awesome. The other engine is drom a cylinder mower i purchased, motor has no spark (as yet i have not tried to fix) but is fitted with a kickstart. However the kickstart doesnt engage the motor but on another shaft, but im sure i could make it work (looks extremely heavy though)....... I agree that this motor looks cool, only downside is its heavy, damn heavy.... And yeah more photos to come

harry76
04-17-2011, 05:01 PM
Thanks for the compliments Mike and Eddy..... Fasteddy we have the same law in Queensland where i am from. But i do get away with riding my 66c Kroon and the police dont seem to mind (i do obey the roadrules and look responsible), so if i get pulled over im just gonna say its a vintage 50cc motor and hope for the best. Fingers crossed.... wish me luck LOL

Mike B
04-17-2011, 05:04 PM
Yeah, cast iron is heavy. Also the reason those engines are still running after 80 years.

harry76
04-17-2011, 05:23 PM
True, not only still running but running far better then my NEW 66cc chinagirl. There is no substitute for quality i guess...

fasteddy
04-17-2011, 06:03 PM
Harry, my arguement is that nothing is illegal until they catch you at it.
Lots of the lads are riding here with a gas engine but when they get stopped by a savy copper things unravel fast.

Had a few Francis Barnett motorcycles over the years and one Dart scrambler that was a great hill climber. They all had Villiers engines on them and other than the electrics for the spark going bad they were pretty much industructable. Not that I ever tried to kill them.
Trying to remember but I think there were a couple of James motor cycles as well.

When Silverbear and I were working on his sidecar last summer he refered to it as Creative Staring. He said holding a can of you favorite brew helped the process and he was indeed right.

Looking forward to seeing more of the build.

Steve.

harry76
04-17-2011, 07:04 PM
Yeah hopefully i only encounter dumb police officers LOL.....
Heres the mower i got the motor (the one not fitted to bike) with and it has a kick start but as you see it engages another shaft. I may be able to use things off the mower. I will be using its fuel tank in a future build.

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3130097.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3130095.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3130094.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3130093.jpg

Mike B
04-17-2011, 07:19 PM
That's a serious mower.

harry76
04-17-2011, 07:31 PM
Yeah it seems a waste to destroy. There are probably villers mower enthusiasts turning in their graves. But i got it very cheap. It is covered in crap but in reasonable nick and would clean up well, and it camewith original manuals and everything that came with it. All that was wrong is it doesnt have spark.

fasteddy
04-17-2011, 07:45 PM
My English Grand Dad pushed one like that by hand when he mowed his lawn. Wasn't that large but darned heavy until you got it going and then it rolled along quite well.

You need either the points cleaned/replaced or the coils replaced. That would be my guess having had the bikes with the Villiers motors. The coils have very fine wires and they could break very easily.
I'd check ebay and see if there is a need for the mower body if you keep the motor.

Steve.

harry76
04-17-2011, 08:25 PM
Yeah i bought a Briggs and Stratton 3hp with no spark. Cleaned the points and it fired straight up. Hopefully this will be the same deal...........And if i dont use the mower body it i could put it on EBay but considering i bought this off EBay for $20 complete with motor i doubt it would fetch much. There are a few sprockets, chain, pillow bearings, a clutch (probably wouldnt be strong enough for mb use???) and even metal i could use so i may just keep it

harry76
04-17-2011, 08:28 PM
Your grandad would have loved this one then, i dont think you have to push it. Its self driving but still damn heavy.

harry76
04-21-2011, 02:53 AM
I plan to make some progress after Easter. Some more shots. I would have liked to taper the tank down near the rider but its not that big, but hopefully big enough LOL, so i think ill need all the fuel i can get. I went to 2 metal recyclers today to try and get some metal for the tank but no luck. Gonna have to find some somewhere after Easter. Also a pic of the disc brake i mounted. And a pic of the motor mounts (zip tyes in the way but you get the picture) i cut out and yet to drill and weld. And as i dont own a welder i need to bother my brother and go to his place everytime i need to weld something
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3160130.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3160129.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3160128.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3160125.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3160124.jpg
And while the current stem may make for a comfy ride a lower stem would look better, my back may not agree

harry76
04-21-2011, 03:02 AM
As this only my 2nd build (66cc Kroon was my first), and my 1st real DIY build any input would be greatly appreciated. I plan to mount a 20inch rim via brackets to the bikes rim. First question, in pics ive seen of people doing this there are say 9 brackets. But the seem to only put 2 bolts in per bracket (1 bolt on bike rim and 1 bolt on rim/pulley). My question is wouldnt they just twist, wouldnt u need 4 bolts per bracket ( 2 on rim, 2 on pulley)? . My next question is it looks like my drive pulley will be roughly 60mm from centre. I was planning a direct drive with hand pulley clutch. Is this too far away from the rim, and needing a jackshaft?
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3160133.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3160132.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3160131.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3160127.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3160126.jpg

silverbear
04-21-2011, 08:16 AM
Hopefully msrfan will see this thread and give some suggestions. Whizzers used a similar setup and he has made several bikes with this arrangement using 5 hsp Briggs and Stratton engines. Your Villiars looks to be a nice fit and not terrible wide, but I'm guessing a jackshaft would allow you to keep the engine centered in the frame. I believe the Whizzer rear wheel pulley and hardware for attaching it is available yet. Studying it might yield the answer to you questions about attaching the rim.
I'm keenly watching this thread, Harry, as I intend to do a similar build using the same belt arrangement and if I can find it, a Villiers to power the belt. So everything you learn and share here is going to benefit me greatly, for which I thank you ahead of time. I know that others down the line will study it also. Your bike is already shaping up nicely. The engine mounting is going to be sweet, making the engine look as if it was original to the bike.
I recently made a gas tank very much like yours with the help of a master tinsmith. http://motorbicycling.com/f26/tinsmiths-frame-gas-tank-cantilever-schwinn-26805.html
If you choose to make yours of tin or copper the thread might give you some ideas.
Cheering you on,
SB

harry76
04-21-2011, 10:52 AM
Thanks for the kind words Silverbear and im certainly up for sharing ideas. I seen some of msrfans bikes. They are awesome and he definitley seems to know his stuff. I have another 2 3hp Briggs and Stratton motors so may definitely need his help in the near future on multiple builds. Im definitley keen to have the motor centered. Im wondering if there are slightly offset pulleys to help me move it slightly inwards. But maybe its not too far spaced from the wheel as is. And i plan to make brackets to the wheel ( i think this would be easier?????) rather then spoke brackets( whizzer type) and not really keen on importing a whizzer thingy. I dont think i will use copper as i dont think itd suit the project. Havent decided yet but im liking the current rusty bare metal look, which means ill just have a bare metal tank with maybe faded graphics or make her all nice and shiny and do the bike either white or the tan color on the rims or a bit of both colors. Decisions decisions

harry76
04-21-2011, 10:56 AM
I think someone asked the year. Well this youtube video says 1955 and its exactly like mine. I built a stationary stand similar to the one in the video and have had the current motor running and it sounds awesome. Way tougher and meatier then my 66cc Kroon. Heres a vid of one running
YouTube - ATCO - Villiers Midget two stroke engine 98cc -1955- (http://youtu.be/ekJNrmXKOQo)

harry76
04-21-2011, 11:02 AM
Or maybe a 1954 like this one
YouTube - Atco Petrol Lawn Mower (http://youtu.be/9PR4WDSWYwc)
or here is a bigger Villiers in a cool ride
YouTube - 1922 Warrior Motorcycle (http://youtu.be/R5U-iNuYIzE)

harry76
04-21-2011, 12:46 PM
I havent been able to find much info on these motors yet. But if i go by the description in this video he claims it produces 1hp @ 2700rpm
YouTube - How to start & stop the Villiers Midget Engine (http://youtu.be/tmCXSF-7cZY)
1hp doesnt sound like much. Hope its alright. I have seen the same motor power early small motorbikes so it must be ok, i hope! My next question is if i can do a direct drive like i want, and i use a 20 inch rear rim (450mm) and if it is 2700rpm a 70mm front pulley would give me 32.5mph. Does that sound about the right front pulley or a different size to get more or less MPH? Or is it just trial and error?

Mike B
04-21-2011, 01:27 PM
1 HP at 2700 is a lot of torque.

My 40 cc Keyang scooter engine is 1 HP at 5000 and 2 HP at 9000.

Torque is more important than speed.

If you don't have enough speed, then you just go slower. If you don't have enough torque, you don't go at all.

Bike Monster
04-21-2011, 04:28 PM
just signing on.....

fasteddy
04-21-2011, 05:47 PM
Harry76, I just wanted to thank you for reawakening my long dormant interest in Villiers motors.
I lived in the Easterm part of Canada in Toronto, Ontario and as a young man had more than my share of James, Francis Barnett and one DOT scambler.

These as you know were all powered with the marvelous Villiers engines. Anywhere from 100 to 200cc.
I would have to say other than the points and coil breaking down they were about impossible to stop.

I was bidding on the same Atco villiers engine that you are using at the time you first posted and I won it. The price in the end was $150 U.S. Strangely enough the motor was about three hour or so drive from Silverbears house.

Silverbear and I are going to finish his canoe side car that we started last summer and then start another build and the Atco Villiers motors will be perfect for the look that we want to achieve and supply the power we need.

Now what started me writing this is that you don't need to worry about a 100cc Villiers motor being good enough. The bikes I had with a motor that size were more than strong enough.
The old joke for us was, How fast do you want to be going when you fall off?

The man who sold the motor to me turned our to be a well known motorbike and motored wheel restorer in the U.S.
I asked his advice on what to do to transfer the power from the motor to the rear wheel and he provided me with a link to a site in China that will supply Whizzer parts.
The Whizzer has a 139cc motor I think so the jackshaft that they used should be about right for us.

I'll email the man and ask if I can post his information that he sent me so you can see the restorations he did.
He restored a Villiers motor wheel as well as a host of motored bikes.

I'll look up the Whizzer parts site and post it.

Steve.

silverbear
04-21-2011, 06:20 PM
Harry,
I would think, too, that the stock exhaust for the lawn mower application of the engine is fairly restrictive. With an expansion exhaust pipe it should help to really wake one of these up. A guy in England told Fasteddy today that the 98cc midget weighs around 40 lbs. Does that sound right to you? Would you sometime please measure the engine... height, width, front to back length? I'd like to know and do some figuring on how much frame modification it will take on a Worksman NB. Fasteddy can translate the metric to inches for me. I don't speak metric.
SB

silverbear
04-21-2011, 08:15 PM
YouTube - 1948 Atco Light Mower - cold start & run (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7FqzW9AoF8&feature=related)
Here's another model of the Atkins mower using your engine Harry. A little 12" light mower the guy found at the dump. Sweet! Interesting muffler on this 1948.
SB

harry76
04-21-2011, 08:15 PM
Thanks guys for the help. By the sounds of it these motors are a good choice? They definitely look the part. And i see many of these motors on EBay Australia, sometimes VERY cheap. I think i may need to keep an eye out and buy many many more when they come up. I see many, still in a complete reel/cylinder mowers. Obviously a lot more of these mowers/engines ended up in Oz rather then the USA. I saw the canoe sidecar project, very very cool! And will be way cooler with one of these. They sound so much better then a chinese engine and as you said open up the exhaust and it may sound even better, and go better......... As for the engine stats: i need to get new batteries for my bathroom scale and ill weigh the engine for you. Now ill give you a roughly eyed measurements. Do not build a frame according to thes measurements LOL. OK the height of the motor from the bottom of engine block to top of sparkplug is 280mm (11 inches), and is 310mm (12.2 inches) from bottom of flywheel to top of sparkplug. The flywheel is 160mm (6.3 inches) in diameter. I measured the length from the carby to the end of the exhaust bolts and was 250mm (9.8 inches). This length measurement could be shortened if needed: the inlet manifold could be made to bend back behind the motor. And i measured to the end of the exhaust bolts allowing for and exhaust, and i was probably being generous (as the bolts are longer then what the exhaust would be). Now the width is a tricky one. Mine has a freewheel kickstart gear (i think)on the outside of the flywheel. And a rope start on opposite side. At present the motor is 250 mm (9.8 inches) wide. I plan to do away with that gear on flywheel and mount a pulley where the ropestart is. So i could probably get it down to 200mm (7.8 inches) wide. Hope that made sesnse. If not dont hesitate to ask.

harry76
04-21-2011, 08:18 PM
Thanks Silverbear. Thats the exact same exhaust that came on my motor

silverbear
04-21-2011, 08:22 PM
YouTube - Atco 14 Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5GMatVAo-E&NR=1)
I think if I had one of these I wouldn't mind mowing the lawn. If I had a lawn. There's a link at the end of this video for a site where you can get engine help. I wonder what the oil to gas mix was on these. I suppose the oil was something like a straight 30 weight. Wonder how Opti 2 would do with it. With an old one like this it might be best to just use a good quality 2 stroke oil. What a cool little motor.
SB

harry76
04-21-2011, 08:26 PM
When i ran my engine on stationary stand i just ran quality 2 stroke oil and mixed a little rich til i find correct ratio. I did look on the chat forum but that was some time ago and have forgotten and need to reinvestigate.

silverbear
04-21-2011, 08:29 PM
Thank you for the measurements, Harry. In a couple of weeks I'll be home in Minnesota and can do some measuring of the frame. Not long after I'll have Fasteddy's engine which is getting shipped to my place. Then I can get an even better idea of how much the frame will need to be modified. Like you, I'm limited by not being a welder, but I have an Indian friend who is pretty reasonable and can make about anything. I think you are wise in salvaging these engines as you can.
SB

harry76
04-21-2011, 08:33 PM
That kickstart is cool. I have the kickstart freewheel gear on the motor. But no kickstrater to fit. I have a kickstarter with my reel mower that fits the other Villiers motor. That kickstarter has more teeth and designed to engage a bigger sprocket..... I would maybe try and make this kickstart but i dont like the thought of that sprocket on the flywheel spinning so close to my precious limbs. I did see a kickstart Briggs and Stratton on this site and it was sooooo cool.

harry76
04-21-2011, 08:36 PM
I can weld (well mig anyway) but dont have a welder. I really need to get that sorted. It really slows down my progress. Cant wait to see your pics and progress and hopefully help and get ideas off each other. I think i may just start bidding on all cheap engines that come up.

fasteddy
04-21-2011, 08:45 PM
eBay My World - che3732wc1 (http://myworld.ebay.com/che3732wc1/)

With luck this is the site for the whizzer parts.

Steve.

fasteddy
04-21-2011, 09:24 PM
Oil mix is 16 to 1.

I saw a motorcycle site where they talked briefly about putting tuned pipes on a Villiers motor and the general opinion was that it wasn't worth it since the motor would need a lot of work to make any difference and it wasn't worth it since there were newer motors that lent themselves better to the work and cost.

Steve.

fasteddy
04-21-2011, 10:23 PM
Bairdco and Silverbear. remember the Colson Crippler I wanted to build? they beat me to it.

invacar (http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=28&ved=0CEUQFjAHOBQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.virtualgaz.com%2Finvacarpage. htm&ei=u-OwTZ-LGZT0tgPbh7z3Cw&usg=AFQjCNFl-QJIAU-YRcF_Cw9BUEKEf9WbdA)

Steve.

silverbear
04-21-2011, 11:36 PM
Harry,
There has to be a way to use a kick start without inflicting harm to body parts... Too cool not to find a way to use it. I saw an illustration of the motor and it shows a decompression deal on it, so I would guess that it could be pedaled a bit and then give it compression and get it started that way. When one of us gets a hold of a manual it will help.
Steve,
I would guess the 16 to 1 would be for straight 30 weight oil, don't you think? I don't understand why a tuned pipe would not help give more power to that engine. Maybe they were talking about a bigger engine or maybe they're comparing to something new and with greater racing potential, like a Morini. I'm no more interested in top speed than you are, but having power is good. As Mike pointed out, this engine sounds like it has a lot of torque. I saw somewhere in my internet wanderings that the 98cc midget was rated at 3 bhp. Is British horse power different than plain old horse power? If they used these motors on light motorcycles they must have had pretty good power.
Yes, I remember the Colson Crippler. The link is interesting and the three wheelers pictured have the good, the bad and the ugly all represented. A few are pretty cool. Didn't know such things existed and interesting that some were powered with Villiars engines. I'd rather have an Indian tri-car though.
Harry, sorry if we're taking your thread someplace else. Yes, lets share what we learn about these motors and what we come up with in drive train components and how-to.
You asked about pulley size earlier and I don't have any idea.
Steve, the Whizzer sheeve hardware isn't too bad at $30.00, but as I recall someone said the shipping was high. Also, as I recall somebody said the hardware had to be modified a little to fit Worksman wheels as the spokes were too thick. We need to ask the Whizzer boys. Isn't there some home made version of this? I like home made. I believe Harry said something about using a 20" wheel. But how do you attach it to the spokes? I'm gonna see what Harry does...
SB
SB
SB

fasteddy
04-22-2011, 12:06 AM
Harry,
My thought is that if the kick start catches you, you will be a foot shorter but only on one side.
If you look at the video of the man starting it, his foot was well out of harms way.

Silverbear,
just mentioning what I read about exhaust. Went back and looked again and Go kart racers are the 8+ horse power motors into 30 horse power monsters. They have a book about it.

Trying to remember back 50 years ago but I don't think that we used anything other than 30 weight oil. It was 65 or 75 cents a quart and I don't remember we used anything else do to the expense.
As for the Whizzer parts I ask tomorrow how much to ship the sheaves and if it high we are better of to get ahold of Quenton.

Steve.

harry76
04-22-2011, 01:05 AM
I dont mind at all if this thread takes a detour. Im learning as well. As for fixing the 20" rim i just planned on making stainless steel (get it free from work and we have a guillo and bender so knocking up these brackets wouldnt be hard. I did a quick drawing because its easier, and im no artist so no wisecracks LOL.

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3170135.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3170134.jpg
Ive seen similar setups on early motorbikes so it must be strong enough, and i would presume stronger then fixing it to the spokes. I would need about 9 or so brackets and obviously would need a countersunk bolt/screw so not to get a flat or damage the belt. On the setups i seen it looked like 2 bolts per bracket (1 bolt on sheave, 1 bolt on rim). But that doesnt seem it would be strong enough as id imagine they would wanna twist under torque. Any help here would be appreciated.

Mike B
04-22-2011, 02:03 AM
I like the brackets.

harry76
04-22-2011, 04:24 AM
Yeah i prefer the bracket idea. Im thinking you can keep correct tension on spokes while getting the correct offset of the 20"rim (are they called sheaves).I think Silverbear asked me about the weight of the Villiers. Well i just went and got batteries for my electric bathroom scales. I did it properly by first taking my weight, then a total weight of me holding the engine then subtracting my weight. And as ive collected a number of engines in the past 6months i can give a little comparison. So here goes......
98cc Villiers (the one fitted on bike) 9.2kg (20.28lbs)
98cc Villiers (the one out of the mower) 10.5kg (23.14 lbs)
Briggs and Stratton 3hp (no carb or inlet manifold) 7.6kg (16.75 lbs)
Victa 160cc (no carb or inlet manifold) 7.7kg (16.97 lbs)
50cc Grubee 4kg (8.81 lbs)
And as my 66cc is in my bike i couldnt get a comparison at this stage but im interested to see next time im working on it. Hope this helps

silverbear
04-22-2011, 08:25 AM
G'day mate,
(I'm learning Aussie.) I'm with Mike. I also like the bent brackets. Stainless can be quite stiff, I am told. What gauge do you think? Your "guillo and bender" would be our sheer and brake, I believe... something to make clean cuts and then something else to make tight and accurate bends. Yes, simple enough with the right tools. I would suppose that the resistance to twist under torque would depend on gauge and how many. Nine sounds right. Bolts would need to be like a spoke nipple in being flat and not rubbing and damaging the belt. The other thing I was thinking about the torque is that I suspect there is a bit of belt slip possible where with gear and chain arrangements that is not the case. Twisting the brackets might not be the problem one would imagine.
Others have solved this in the past, so we need to see what the pioneers of motor bicycling did. And it is nice to know that if it is too complicated for me, I can order a Whizzer sheave. I always have more time than money, however, so am reluctant to hand over my pitiful social security funds. Besides, making something out of nothing is great fun, akin to skipping school as a boy.
So, a little over 20 pounds for your engine. Not so bad. Is that including the gas tank and muffler? i don't know about you, but I have no plans for the pedals other than as foot rests and a way to be legal. Somewhat legal. Legal looking.
I was just about to throw away a couple of rims from moped wheels I robbed the hubs from in building new 26" rims for my project bike. I think now I'll hang on to them as possible sheaves. Quite stout. My wheels have 12 gauge spokes and drum brakes front and rear. Rims are 50's Schwinn. I wonder what the optimum diameter of a sheave should be. Anyone know? What diameter are Whizzer sheaves?
SB

harry76
04-22-2011, 08:33 AM
Your Australian is outstanding!!!! LOL. The bolts will be countersunk screws so not to damage belt or tube. And i think people glue leather or rubber on the sheave anyway for extra traction.
And yes guillo and bender is just as you said.
And all engine weights were without fuel tank or mufflers. Just the engine.

msrfan
04-22-2011, 06:33 PM
What diameter are Whizzer sheaves?
SB
Hey SB. Whizzer pulleys are 15" or so.

harry76
04-22-2011, 06:41 PM
Mrsfan, ive seen you have a lot of experience with these belt drives setups. Do you think attaching brackets from rim to sheave will be sufficient? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Also if you are familiar with this bracket setup, is 1 bolt per bracket (as ive seen) enough?

silverbear
04-22-2011, 10:15 PM
What diameter are Whizzer sheaves?
SB
Hey SB. Whizzer pulleys are 15" or so.

Thank you. The moped rims I have are 16", so they might work for sheaves. Are you familiar with these Villiers engines?
SB

msrfan
04-22-2011, 10:19 PM
Hey Harry. I've used v belts on my bikes. Always wanted to use a flat leather belt for a vintage look. The 9 brackets holding the 20" wheel should be more than sufficient. I would definitely use 2 bolts per bracket. 26" wheels have at least 1 1/2" between spokes. I think brackets allowing 2 bolts each on 1" centers would be adequate. That way no twisting and plenty of strength. You weaken the rim if you countersink for flush head bolts. I would use dome head philips screws. Small bolts are plenty strong for this application. You might even consider Pop Rivets. They don't come loose and are available in many sizes and configurations. In any case, you're on the right track. Use heavy enough guage metal and try not to have them reach out too far. silverbear always has some great ideas.

msrfan
04-22-2011, 10:22 PM
Thank you. The moped rims I have are 16", so they might work for sheaves. Are you familiar with these Villiers engines?
SB
__________________
16" would be a good size as you can always adjust your ratios with the other pulleys. I'm not familiar with Villiers engines. I just started looking at them because of this thread. They look awsome. Reminds me of the upright Maytag motors.

harry76
04-23-2011, 01:01 AM
Thanks Msrfan, a 20" inch sheave should work shouldnt it. Wont it just lower the gearing? Requiring a slightly larger front pulley?
Also this is my first DIY build, so im learning as i go, but any help on the gearing would be greatly appreciated. I entered info into the gear calculator and i worked out with a 20 inch sheave that about a 70mm front pulley will get about 32mph. I have no idea whether that on the money, or way off. Maybe its trial and error????
If i know what size front pulley i can try and find one after easter then look at mounting the rear sheave.

harry76
04-23-2011, 06:49 AM
Im willing to pedal a little off the start. And im not trying to break the sound barrier. If possible id like it to cruise with traffic at 60kph (37mph) and not be reving its head off like my 66cc Kroon

harry76
04-23-2011, 07:28 AM
And i really should share the story of the flat front tyre in the pictures. As it may act as a warning to others.
I bought 2 sets of tyres off EBay (White balloon tires, Antique bicycle 26x2.125, $39pair). The flat tyre was originally the rear tyre on my 66cc Kroon build. And i now have concerns about using them on MB builds. Maybe i was just unlucky? You decide...
I was riding my 66cc Kroon at top speed when THUMP BANG. Oh crap! I managed to come to a stop, looked down and noticed a flat tyre. No biggie. I pushed it home thinking the tube that was supplied with the tyre blew. So i went and purchased a mountain bike downhill tube (these things are thick and damn heavy, i run them on all my mountainbikes, even my cross country. I HATE GETTING FLATS) and went home to fit it. I removed the tyre and got quite a shock. Inside the tyre was a splinter of wood from what looked like a pallet. Now this splinter was around 6 inches long and about 2 inches thick (i really should have taken a pic of it) and punched a neat hole in the tyre.
Now ive ridden many disciplines in mountain biking and never ever seen anything like this..... My first point is i should have been paying closer attention to what i was running over....... My second point is i doubt a quality tyre like a Fat Frank would have failed the same way.
So if you are planning to buy these tyres for a MB build be warned......

silverbear
04-23-2011, 08:40 AM
I've also had two blowouts this winter, both with vintage tires which looked great... like new. But they weren't new. As with cars, the tires age just sitting there even filled with air. No doubt they would have been fine for an old pedal cruiser creeping along at pedaling speeds, but not for a motorbike. Both times it was the rear tire which makes for a royal pain to switch out. No more old tires for me, cheap as I am. I have Fat Franks on one bike back home and two have new cream colored Electras purchased reasonably from Amazon. And I think from now on I'll use the super thick tubes for the rear wheels. I do not like flats, either, especially when two chains are involved.
Regarding your sheave. It occurred to me that your 20" one may be a bicycle wheel using a 20" tire. If the tire is 20". then the rim (pulley size) would be more like 16". At least here in the states bicycle wheels are measured including the tire. Moped wheels are described by rim diameter so that a 16" moped wheel is very close in size to the rim of a 20" bicycle wheel. Might be worth measuring to be sure for your calculations.
SB

harry76
04-23-2011, 06:15 PM
Im glad you reminded me of that..... ive had many mountainbikes, and all 26" tyres fit 26'rims. I thought thats the way it was, until about a year ago when i became interested in restoring vintage bicycles. And saw first hand how many different 26" tyre/wheel combos.
So i measured the 20" rim i have and came up with 445mm (17.5") where the belt would sit. Thanks again for pointing that out.
And your tyres that blew were old and perhaps the rubber was perishing, but mine were BRAND NEW tyres. Obviously only cheap rubber compound

msrfan
04-23-2011, 06:54 PM
Good call on the rim sizes, silverbear. That makes his rim closer to a Whizzer size than we first thought.

harry76
04-23-2011, 07:10 PM
I might try and go to my brothers or a friends over the Easter break to weld in the engine mounts.
In Australia we have a 5 day Easter weekend with Anzac day (I dont as i work shift work) so the shops wont be open until Wednesday, then ill go and try to find a front pulley. Then i will know the exact offset for the rear sheave.....then i will know the offset of the sheave. Then i can make the brackets..... And ill also need to get some steel to make this tank. Then it should start coming together

fasteddy
04-23-2011, 07:17 PM
Got an email from the person selling the non whizzer, whizzer parts in Hong Kong.
It will be $24.50 Canadian to send the rim to where I live in Canada. I'm two blocks from the Pacific Ocean so I'm sure it is cheaper than on the other end of the country.

While Harry has been talking about the bike wheels and clips I've been thinking more about that being the way to go. Looks original and a lot more fun.
Given the concern about the belt slipping I was wondering if a coating of truck bed liner on the inside of the rim would help.
Brushed or sprayed it would close up the width of the rim a little so the belt would track a straighter line and have grip on all sides. The rivets or bolt heads would at least be covered and level on the drive pulley.

My thoughts on a sunny spring day anyway.

Steve.

harry76
04-23-2011, 07:27 PM
Yeah some sort of painted on coating could be a good idea id imagine. I planned on gluing (not sure it would hold for very long) rubber or leather down but a painted on coating would be much easier, more durable and more attravtive to the eye. Thanks for the idea

fasteddy
04-23-2011, 07:43 PM
Harry if you are going that route I'd glue an inflated inner tube into the rim and when it dried I'd cut the sides even with the rim and that would save you a lot of work and give you a neat job. Maybe leaving a bit of the cut off air valve sticking out would help with preventing the tube turning on the rim.
A heavy tube would be a bonus for longevity.

Steve.

harry76
04-23-2011, 07:50 PM
You my friend are an ideas man. Another great idea but im leaning towards the painted on coating you suggested

silverbear
04-23-2011, 07:53 PM
Fasteddy, I'm picturing that and wondering if it would be good to use a too small tube measuring like 15 or 16 inches so that when it was deflated it would remain tight to the rim. Does that make sense? Seems like when tubes have no air in them (like when you get a flat) they are loose on the rim. A good contact cement would hold well I would think. But maybe a paint on coating would be best. Don't know. My moped rims have a deep V shaped channel where the spokes went through... like they were made for this. I'll take a picture tomorrow. Fasteddy, if you want one of my two, I'll take the pair to Minnesota with me. i only have use for one of them.
SB

fasteddy
04-23-2011, 11:29 PM
Silverbear, I think that small tube would work like a champ. Just so long as you could get enough air into it so it pressed against all the rim, you would have it made.
I'd look up adhesives and glues and see what is available on the net.
Regular contact cement may come loose as it warms up from the friction of the belt going over it. This is something only practice will tell for certain.

Thank you for the offer of the moped rims. I surely would like to have one.
I think the the rim with a decent coating of bed liner would work out the best. I did see it applied once and they roughed up the bed pretty hard. Seems it needs a real"tooth"to have it stick with out lifting.
I'm sure that wire brush on a drill would give you that. A couple of layers of tape would keep the coating from coming through the spoke holes and you would be ready to go.

I've read that once the liner is on the bed it is all but impossible to get it off. Comes in colours as well. Not inexpensive though.

Looking more like a fun build.

Steve.

harry76
04-24-2011, 07:18 AM
Silverbear or Fasteddy, Im still a little cofused about working out my gear ratio, i havent been able to find much info on what RPM's/HP these motors pull. The only info i have found is the description in a previous Youtube video i posted, he claimed 1HP at 2700rpm but like someone said i thought i had seen 3HP with with no mention of RPM. What do i do?
I have 26"wheels
The rear sheave is 445mm (17.52")
If i work on 2700rpm
Then a 100mm (3.94") front sprocket will give me a speed of 46.9 MPH
I plan to buy a pulley (if i can find one) on Wednesday when the shops open. So if this doesnt sound right any input would be greatly appreciated

silverbear
04-24-2011, 07:56 AM
G'day Mate & Happy Easter down under. I just realized you're in the fall season, while here in the northern hemisphere spring is busting out all over.
I'm not at all savvy about gears and ratios. I wait for somebody smart to figure things like that out for me and go from there. Two who may know are msrfan and Quenton Guenther, both of whom know a lot about Whizzers and belt drive setups. I wonder if an adjustable front pulley would be helpful. If it were me and I was trying to get things lined up I guess I'd try to get the motor in place first, having it centered. Then I'd look at where a pulley can go on the motor shaft... is there much option how close in or far away to the engine it can be mounted? The third thing is the sheave. I would think it would need to be very close to the wheel since the bike frame may get in the way of the belt. I see on msrfan's builds that he has the frame crimped a bit where the belt would otherwise rub against the frame. On the other hand his 5 hsp Briggs engines are wide while your Villiers looks to be more narrow. His jackshaft arrangement (if that's what you call it), allows for some belt adjustment in and out from the frame, or at least that's my understanding. I imagine you're going to need to determine whether or not you need a jackshaft arrangement to get the belt going to the sheave in a straight line.
I shouldn't even speculate on this stuff, I know so little. The little book of msrfan's Briggs builds which I have made a copy of for you (hope that's OK msrfan) and will have in the mail tomorrow, should help to give you some ideas you can apply or adapt to the Villiers build.
I'm in the lucky position of having you to work all this out ahead of time so I can profit from your experience. By the time you are riding around I'll be starting on mine and pretty much "doing what Harry did". I'm afraid your pulley sizes may be partly trial and error. Are you figuring on some kind of automatic clutch or a manual clutch? I don't have much of a picture in my head of how you are going to go about it. Do you figure on pedal start? Gosh, so much to figure out...
SB

harry76
04-24-2011, 09:44 AM
Haha yeah hopefully i/we can work out some of the bugs, should make it a lot easier for you.
Working out the front pulley size is confusing me more then the fitting of the motor and sheave. I plan to buy the front pulley before i mount the motor, that way if im only a little out i could (but would rather not) offset the motor. Once i have the pulley fitted i will measure from the centre of the engine to the middle of the pulley. Then once i know that measurement i can know how far from the rim the sheave needs to be fitted. Then i will fit my motor and wheel with sheave. Then my next dillemma is how much bigger the belt needs to be (to spin freely when hand clutch not engaged).
I did an EXTREMELY (LOL) rough diagram of my hand clutch, much the same as found on early motorcycles.
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3190136.jpg

harry76
04-24-2011, 09:46 AM
Oh and i plan to cut the rear triangle and bend it out and weld a piece in to allow for the extra width of the sheave

fasteddy
04-24-2011, 02:38 PM
Harry, I'm not much help with gear ratios either I'm afraid. The man I bought the Atco Villiers from told me that the best idea was to follow what Whizzer did using a jack shaft.
Not faulting your idea and I have thought about the same set up many times but in the middle of a panic stop the last thing you may have time for is disengaging the clutch.

I'm trying to dust off some old memories but if I'm right my old Francis Barnett with a 100cc Villiers motor was good for around 70mph or over 110 kmh flat out on a straight run in 4th gear.
My guess is that with the right gear ratio these motors will put you in to speeds that you may have a need to go home and change you y fronts if it goes bad. Remember we are riding on bicycle tires.

That said these motors were designed to happily thump away pushing a lawn mower for years. That's why there are so many still around. They were not built for speed though I would think if you were to apply different motorcycle speed mods to them they may well yield more speed.
Just remember you are breaking new ground with all this, so it will take time and a lot of creative staring. That's Silverbears term and it works..

I'm going to email a used book merchant in England who listed a bunch of Villiers farm and motorcycle books and see if I can find books on repairs and operating these mowers.

I will email the chap I got the motor from tomorrow and ask if I can post the link to the museum site where his restorations are. You have to know his name and location to know which bikes and motor wheels are his. I'll ask him also about what gear ratios he would recomend if he can.
When you see the high quality of his restorations you will understand his depth of knowledge. I just don't want to pester him for information.

Steve.

harry76
04-24-2011, 03:06 PM
Sounds like you are doing your homework. Excellent.

I am aware of the downsides of a direct drive hand clutch in an emergency, but considering i will have front and rear oversized disc brakes even if i cant disengage the clutch, but do get off the throttle im guessing it would come to a stop and stall. Do you think?

I intend on doing a few builds all different setups so id like to try a hand clutch on this.

And sounds like this chap could be very helpful but i totally understand not wanting to pester him.

And as far as the gear ratio unless someone can advise me of a better choice i think ill go with the 100mm pulley, and just trial and error. If the pulley isnt right i may be able to use it in a future build as i have a few more motors to play with.

silverbear
04-24-2011, 04:27 PM
Pictured below is the wheel and sheave I intend to use on my Villiers/Indian tri-car build. The wheel was laced up using a 50's Schwinn 26X 2.125 rim, 12 gauge spokes and the rear hub from an AMF moped. I have set on top of it the moped rim left over from using the moped hub. The rim measures approximately 16 inches in diameter and is stout. Something good about it is the channel in the rim where the spokes attached to the nipples... just right for a V belt I would think. What may be bad about it is the rim is wide to accept a 3" tire and will mean the belt may be far enough from the drive wheel to run into the frame. I won't know that until I try it of course.
As a kind of aside, an old moped can yield a lot of useful parts in a build of this kind... a suspension front fork with ears for a headlight, speedometer, handlebars, throttle control and brake levers, drum brake hubs which can be laced into a 26" wheels providing they are 36 hole, switches and in this case the sheave for a belt drive. So a dead moped could be a great resource for useful parts. Something to consider. Msrfan got me thinking along these lines...thanks, Bud.
SB

harry76
04-24-2011, 06:26 PM
SB i love your rear hub. SWEET! I do keep an eye out for mopeds on EBay but we dont see many loder style like these in Oz and if i do they want good money :-(
The only downside to using that sheave i could see if you intend to do direct drive like me is the sidewalls of the rim dont look high enough to keep the belt on the sheave when the tension is off the belt. My sheave has a 10mm
(1/2") tall sidewall.
Im also going to build a Indian replica (worlds slowest Indian Briggs powered) and am now wondering whether i should use a Villiers as well. Im thinking the Villiers is a closer match to their single cylinder version then what my 3hp Briggs. I suppose i have time to think about it.

harry76
04-25-2011, 02:31 PM
I have another question/dilemma..... seeing as electrical is definitely my weakest suit, how do i go about making a kill switch for this? If at all possible.
In the video posted previously it showed proper start up and shut down. It says shut down procedure is shutting off fuel and closing choke/strangulator. And when i tried this method when i was running the motor on the stationary stand it took quite some time to stop. Not very safe for a MB.

harry76
04-25-2011, 02:46 PM
And while im asking how to stop it, i should probably ask for advice on how to start it.
The motor does have that freewheel sprocket on the flywheel side for a kickstarter. Im not ruling out using that but i think its in a bad spot. I will need to take a closer look once the motor is fitted.
Does anyone know or can take an educated guess whether i will be able to pedal it and clutch start it? Or will i need the kickstart or rope pull?

silverbear
04-25-2011, 04:04 PM
On old lawn mowers I recall killing the motor by depressing a littl sprint like tab at the spark plug which made contact between the body of the motor and the spark plug. I would think you could do the same thing. No doubt there is something simple in the wiring where it cold be grounded. I'm sure that on a motorcycle you didn't have to wait for the choke to kill it. Msrfan would know as I imagine the Briggs are the same.
He bump starts his Brigs and employs a decompression valve which he fabricates for the 5 Horse Briggs, as you'll see in the little booklet which was sent out today. I'll see if I can post a picture of the engine layout which indicates it has a decompression valve. I'll see if I can find it...

...here it is. Wouldn't this also be a way to kill the engine? How could it run without compression? I've never seen one of these, so am just guessing.

By the way, I believe the magneto on these can produce enough juice for lights. I'm just guessing but imagine it employed the same magneto whether it was for a motorcycle or stationary appllication. I guess we'll find out.
SB

fasteddy
04-25-2011, 05:00 PM
Harry, electric isn't my thing either but the simple way is a strip of spring steel bolted to a head bolt and pressed against the spark plug top. Hold it until the motor stops which will not be long. Not to sure what else you can do since these motors get their power from a magneto and I can't remember if you ground out the coil it messes everything up.
Someone who has a better knowledge of these will answer I'm sure.

If your going to use the tank mounted clutch I would think that it would work fine. After you pedal the bike up to a bit of speed the rear wheel will turn the engine over and start the engine when you engage the clutch.
The original engines were started by putting them up on their rear wheel stands and were pedaled with the clutch engaged and the the clutch was let off when the bike started.
If you google starting an antique motorcycle, something should come up so you can see how they did it.

Remember the larger sheave on the rear wheel will spin the motor at a much faster rate than the rear wheel it turning.

Hope that this was some help.

Steve.

fasteddy
04-25-2011, 05:20 PM
Darn SB got there first.

I'm getting ready to email some people in England who supply parts and repairs for these motors and ask about the lighting and see if there is a special lighting coil as well as ignition coil and see if they can be applied to these motors if there are.

I just bought another motor in England that needs a carb so I need to ask about them as well. It may need more but the seller said it had good compression and spark but no carb.

Thinking about getting a speed secrets book for the Villiers as well. Strictly so I'm in the know as how to do it and not for any personal use. Heaven forbid.

Did see my 98cc James on the net and it had something like 4.6 horse power but didn't give a rpm. Will have to look into it more. Didn't have a 4 speed either as I remembered. It was a 3 speed trans. That was just to many years ago and too many cobwebs in the mental attic.

Steve.

silverbear
04-25-2011, 05:28 PM
Why couldn't you run a wire from the head bolt to a kill switch on the handlebar and from the switch back to the spark plug? Not that pressing the spring steel piece against the plug is hard or anything. Just thinking up a what if. I still like that kick start if there's a way to use it.
SB

fasteddy
04-25-2011, 05:35 PM
I'd thought about that to but was thinking of the pretty, no wires running all over the bike look. It would work like a champ though.
Saw a kill switch on the Villiers 4 stroke and they ran on the a magneto as well so that may be wrong on my part. Just remember that the mag on the old bikes didn't like being played around with.

Another cup of tea and more research.

Steve.

silverbear
04-25-2011, 06:26 PM
Yes, on vintage rides it would be more in keeping with the early days of motorcycles to keep things clean and not have wires all over the place.
SB

harry76
04-25-2011, 09:02 PM
Keep talking guys im hoping you can come up with the best solution as im no good with electrical (i should really learn more). Congrats on the new engine Steve. Im going to bid on another in a couple days. Its only up to $25.
SB you were asking about the bracket setup for the sheave and how the handclutch would work. Well in Budfabs video he has the same setup. Although his sheave is bigger making the brackets shorter (stronger) but hopefully mine will still work. I never grow tired of this video. If you have seen it its an excuse to watch it again.
YouTube - 1905ish Homemade Motorcycle (http://youtu.be/L-FE42yduNI)
And just incase you havent seen it. His maytag powered bicycle bicycle is worth a look. This guy knows his stuff. He has a 50cc land speed record of like 130mph. Crazy
YouTube - Maytag Bicycle (http://youtu.be/R-oLV9DW_n8)

silverbear
04-25-2011, 10:44 PM
Oh boy... yes, I've seen that video and just watched it again. He sure knows what he's doing. I found that Maytag build interesting. Before I got this motorbicycling bug I had a Maytag washing machine motor that I gave away to a guy who was into old motors. Now I'm into old motors and wonder where my Matag is. Ha! A Villiers will come into my life pretty soon I hope and that will do just fine.
SB

fasteddy
04-25-2011, 10:48 PM
Silverbear thought I'd answer your, what did I pay for the motor, question here.
It was 22 British Pounds or about $35 Canadian. When I asked if he would send it over here he looked it up and said 40 British Pounds or $63 Canadian.

I'm going to put an ad in our electronic ad page here and see what turns up. Vancouver and Victoria was the center of all things British at one time and I'm sure that there are a few Atco mowers tucked away that are moved every once in a while and threatened to be sold but nothing ever happend.

Did you notice that the motors he had in the video were converted to a battery and coil setup? Better and more even spark.

Silverbear, found out more about the motor with the head with the upright plug and the "porcupine" head fins.
It's called a Standard HY or and HY Standard depending on who is telling the story and comes in at a decent 148cc.
It was used on big mowers and tillers and stationary things like water pumps. If it was stationary it has a fan fly wheel and a shroud.

Saw one on the net but he wasn't interested in shipping it. That monster on a bike would get you into Ely with time to spare.

Steve.

fasteddy
04-25-2011, 10:58 PM
Harry, if you look on You Tube you will find a video of him making the VW engine.

Did you see how he started both motors. Both by putting it up on the bike stand and just pedaling down the road until it started.

Hope that motor is yours at the end of the auction.

Steve.

silverbear
04-25-2011, 11:01 PM
Fasteddy,
Even with shipping, that's a decent price for the motor. Of course you still have to come up with a carb for it. If you can find a couple locally and not have to ship any distance that would be very cool. I'm thinking the chances of finding those in the states is slim. On the other hand you found that first one in Minnesota. How much bigger is that 148cc... and that's a two stroke? We're talking pretty serious power, don't you think? I see that Villiers also made the British Seagull outboard motors. Hummm, I've got this thing for old boats, too, ya see. Wonder what one of those would cost...
Harry, good luck with that motor you're bidding on. $25.00? I wonder what that would be in U.S. dollars.
SB

fasteddy
04-25-2011, 11:13 PM
SB, just looked up the dollar.

$1 Aus.= $1.0721 U.S.

Steve.

harry76
04-25-2011, 11:17 PM
Dont even think about it SB, its mine LOL. Not that many years ago (maybe 5-10) the Aussie dollar was at US$0.50. Imagine how cheap they would have been for you

harry76
04-25-2011, 11:19 PM
Im quite surprised how cheap that motor was to post from England. Thats what the US charges to post a measily bike seat to Oz.

fasteddy
04-25-2011, 11:26 PM
It may be a Commonwealth thing too. We being former colonies the Pommies take pity on us for the years of hardship we suffered.
Well you folks suffered. We were the dumping ground for the failed Lords and Ladies.

They were known as Remittance Men because they were payed a remittance to stay away from the Old Country. Got into a few fights mentioning that when they said something about ****ing colonials.

Steve.

msrfan
04-25-2011, 11:41 PM
Hey silverbear, you should have kept that Maytag motor. They're really a blast to run, and you can restore one in just a few days. Here's some of mine. I have 6 or 8 singles and twins.


http://i1047.photobucket.com/albums/b478/msrfan/DSCN0234.jpghttp://i1047.photobucket.com/albums/b478/msrfan/DSCN0233.jpg

fasteddy
04-26-2011, 12:54 AM
Keep meaning to mention that I also bought a Hurth three speed transmission as well from the same person that I got the Villiers motor from.
It has a shifting lever with a wood knob and came from Germany where he bought it.
It was from a motorcycle that had a 200cc Villiers engine in it but the name has been lost in the buying and selling.

The price was $202.50 and I bought it just incase there may be a use for it somewhere in one of the builds. I'll see if I can bring a photo over here from the Ebay ad that I saved but I usually lose them.

Msrfan, I never knew there were so many different Maytags. Very nice collection and restorations.

Steve.

fasteddy
04-26-2011, 02:20 PM
Harry, don't know if this will help you with the gear ratios but the inner sprocket on the transmission has a 20 tooth sprocket and the outer sprocket has a 40 tooth sprocket.

I'll frisk the Villiers motorcycle sites and see if I can find out what the 198cc engine had for a sprocket and the final drive sprocket tooth count on the rear wheel.

Steve.

harry76
04-26-2011, 06:14 PM
Thanks Steve, but i dont know what to do with those figures you gave me. LOL. Im waiting for the shops to open then im off to Tampico (tool and machinery shop) to hopefully find or at least order a pulley. I have absolutely no idea what i should expect to pay but im hoping under $50. I think ill try and get a 100mm pulley and just give it a go. Then ill go and try and find some steel for this and my other Indian project. Sounds like an easy task but ive been having trouble (i miss my old job where i had access to all the steel i wanted).

fasteddy
04-26-2011, 06:19 PM
I asked the the chap that I bought the motor from for permission to tell every one about the site that he had some of his bikes on. These bikes have been sold or were lost in a fire.

U.S. Scooter Museum

Click on scooters, then on the company logos on the left.

Any marked Dave Bagne, Hutchinson Minnesota are his. There are a lot of scooter of course but also a large number of motorized bicycles.

Harry, I asked him for advice as to how to gear the bike without a jackshaft and he didn't reply to that part so I guess we are on our own.

Steve.

fasteddy
04-26-2011, 06:41 PM
Harry, isn't that a good example of life. You don't need steel and there is an abundance and as soon as you do need it there isn't any.

At the last of the museum site there is a really nice original Indian that someone swapped a Whizzer motor into in the early 40's and it looked good.

Steve.

harry76
04-26-2011, 06:58 PM
I had a quick look Steve, i seen some cool stuff but totally different setups. Ill have to have a closer look later.
Msrfan, since u have all those maytag engines have you thought about adapting one to a bike like BUDDFAB did. Its such a neat looking setup. I know after i saw the Maytag video i jumped online to see if i could find one. But nothing. Im sure they are pretty few and far between, at least in my neck of the woods. But if i ever come across one i will be snapping it up.

harry76
04-26-2011, 07:04 PM
The engine i was bidding on is up to $41 so i wont be bidding on it. Its not going, minus a flywheel and carb but does have a very unique exhaust. I see them for this price or cheaper for complete cylinder (reel) mowers. And as it stands at present i have a 50cc and 66cc chinagirl, 2 x 3hp Briggs and Stratton, 2 x Villiers 98cc and a 160cc Victa so i have more engines then bikes to put them in. In saying that if i see a bargain buy i wont be able to pass it up LOL

fasteddy
04-26-2011, 07:25 PM
Harry, this will set you up with an idea of what's on our side.

Small air Cooled Engines and Parts For Sale (http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDgQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.enginads.com%2Fclassifieds%2F showcat.php%2Fcat%2F4&ei=5VK3TeLIHYn0swOllPCoAQ&usg=AFQjCNEI5-3G9n9_uFfb2AU9AvhVVPR-gg)

Steve.

harry76
04-26-2011, 08:31 PM
OOOOH love that site... way to make me jealous LOL.
Well just got back from steel and pulley shopping empty handed. Im home to get directions to a place that i was referred to about a pulley, as the shop i went to have no pulleys with threads on them.
And i went to a few steel places.... nothing. And no-one seems to have any useful scrap for me to buy so i resorted goin to buy some new stuff. Well i found a piece of 700mm (27.5") x 700mm x 2mm (for the fuel tank) and said id take it. But he wanted nearly $50 for it and as much for a few metres of 25mm (1") steel tube (for my Indian frame). The total was $100, i nearly choked and told him i would pass. I used to get this stuff for free so am having a hard time parting with that sort of money. Im gonna have to take a drive into one of the bigger metal recyclers i think. Or find something made of metal and cut it up. This is frustrating

Elmo
04-26-2011, 09:38 PM
Why couldn't you run a wire from the head bolt to a kill switch on the handlebar and from the switch back to the spark plug? Not that pressing the spring steel piece against the plug is hard or anything. Just thinking up a what if. I still like that kick start if there's a way to use it.
SB
You would have to use wire with insulation that would hold the high voltage that the ignition coil produces or it would drain off the spark and the engine wouldn't run very well.

silverbear
04-26-2011, 09:46 PM
You would have to use wire with insulation that would hold the high voltage that the ignition coil produces or it would drain off the spark and the engine wouldn't run very well.

Well, that's good enough reason for me to forget that idea. Thanks, Elmo.
SB

harry76
04-26-2011, 10:27 PM
Just got back from my trip to get the pulley and visit the metal recyclers. Well the metal recyclers werent there any more :-( and when i went to the place that does pulleys and sprockets etc, they said you cant get a threaded pulley. It took me a while to get the guy to understand what i wanted. Once i did, he was very helpful. I got a 100mm pulley that had a smaller hole then my shaft. So he told me of a cheap machine shop to visit to put a thread in it. He even handed it to me and said fix him up once i know its the right one. Thats cool but i said id prefer to just pay for it now (it was only $20). And the pulley is wider then my threaded section so it will need to be bored part way and then threaded which will actually move it closer to the bike which is a plus. Ill pick it up from the machine shop tommorrow and post pics.

harry76
04-26-2011, 10:33 PM
And once the pulley is on ill know how far my sheave is from my wheel and be able to make the brackets when i go back to work next week. And once my motor is fitted and sheave is on ill be able to get an exact measurement for my v belt. Does anyone know how much bigger the belt should be to allow for the belt to slip when hand clutch isnt engaged but not too big that it would jump off the pulleys? Maybe Mrsfan may know the answer to that one.

msrfan
04-26-2011, 11:31 PM
If this is a point ignition system, interupt the wire going from the points to the coil with a kill button on the bars.

fasteddy
04-26-2011, 11:32 PM
Why is it that the fellow who thinks his metal is equal to gold is still there and the metal recycler is gone. Another one of lifes mysteries.
Maybe now the metal recycler is gone he feels he can ask what he wants.

Glad you got your pulley figured out. It will be interesting to see how it all lines up.

Found a hand book that has the engine operations in it with a parts section. They want me to part with $35 to get it here. They did have a page open to show the motors and I saw that one had a rope start and the other one it said to wrap the strap around the fly wheel and pull it to start. Wouder what the strap looked like.
I think I'll email them and make sure that it is the right manuel for our motors.

Steve.

fasteddy
04-26-2011, 11:38 PM
msrfan, yes this a points system with a magneto. Can you ground it without messing up the coils?

Steve.

harry76
04-27-2011, 12:00 AM
My motor had a rope pull start attachment where my pulley will go. I realise i may be able to bumpstart it by riding and engaging the clutch but it would be handy to be able to start it on the spot. It never even crossed my mind to use the flywheel. Weve got tie down straps (about 2" wide) at work for loading trucks and i can get some free. Im thinking if i just wrapped it around the flywheel a few times to grip it may start it. But i wonder if it started and still had a few coils wrapped around the flywheel it could get tangled. I guess the key would be the right length of strap (long enough to get a grip, but not too long that it would tangle up). Do you guys think that would work or just dangerous?

fasteddy
04-27-2011, 12:09 AM
It should just spin the strap off since it is turning in the same direction. I did see somewhere in my travels that you could put your foot on the fly wheel and spin it over that way.
Might get interesting in a hurry if your shoe lace gets caught. I'll probably have the directions before you are ready to start it so we'll know what to do.

Steve.

silverbear
04-27-2011, 05:57 AM
What an interesting adventure these motors are. A kill switch would be handy if accessible at the handlebar rather than reaching down blind to the spring metal type at the spark plug. What would have been the purpose of the compression valve?
Harry, I looked over the ebay offerings in Australia the other day for both stationary engines and vintage lawnmowers and it looked to me like the mowers were cheaper than buying just the engine. I noticed on the British ebay that these engines were also used on cultivators and pumps, so that might be another option to explore. No doubt they are around and my guess is that once you are seen tooling around on your cool ride, somebody will say they have an old motor like that on a mower in the back shed that hasn't been run in years. This is where you say you might be willing to give something for it so you have spare parts... heh heh heh. They will appear.
SB

msrfan
04-27-2011, 11:53 PM
I mentioned the point wire because that's how some old motors I've seen did it. A double wire on the same terminal of the coil, one going to the points, and the other to a grounding switch. Maybe the manual will show the correct way.

harry76
04-28-2011, 02:53 PM
The machinist hadnt finished the pulley when i went yesterday. He said he couldnt find a tap for the thread on the shaft and was having to machine one in. Hopefully today, this time ill call before making the drive.
SB ive noticed that the mowers go cheaper then what the motors do. And you get all the other parts that come with it. I havent put much thought into what i could use. But im sure ill be able to in future builds. Or maybe even this one if i somehow use the kickstart. I found the manual for the mower that shows the parts. If you can see it clear enough.
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3230161.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3230158.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3230160.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3230157.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3230156.jpg

fasteddy
04-28-2011, 03:37 PM
Hi Harry,
SB's computer crashed so he may not visit as much as he was. Glad you found a operators manuel. All that I have seen are the wrong ones.

Not surprised that the machinist had to cut the treads. They may have been the old British Standard Whitworth threads.
I used to have a separate tool box full of tools to repair my cars at one time.

Not surprised that the mowers go cheaper. Think it's because they want to get rid of the lump of metal all at once instead of bit and pieces.

Just missed the carb in England. Forgot to check where my bid was compared to the offers. With luck there will be others.

Any luck on the metal gathering front?

Steve.

harry76
04-29-2011, 01:42 AM
Yeah i found metal and alloy for my Indian project but no steel for my tank as of yet. I looked at cutting the mower catcher, that could work and its free.

I picked up my pulley. This should do the trick i think. And as you can see the pulley is sort of stepped in moving it closer, which will help with the sheave. It goes without saying that ill get rid of the pink spray paint that came on the pulley.

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3240165.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3240164.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3240163.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3240162.jpg

fasteddy
04-29-2011, 01:56 AM
I'm impressed with the quality of your pulley. Wasn't sure just what it would take and that one looks first rate.

Nice to see the motor up close like that.

The pulley does step in nicely and still looks to clear the engine and yes the pink does leave something to be desired.

Steve.

harry76
04-29-2011, 02:18 AM
Just hope i didnt go too big on that front pulley. I suppose i will find out. Im starting to think i may have as the bikes ive looked at since dont have that big of a front pulley. Maybe ill set some land speed records with it LOL

harry76
04-29-2011, 10:33 AM
Mounted the engine tonight. Tackwelded the engine mounts and just need shorter bolts.
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3240167.jpg
http:/http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3240174.jpg/i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3240169.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3240173.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3240171.jpg

Bike Monster
04-29-2011, 05:04 PM
what kind of engine is that??? and how many cc's????

Mike B
04-29-2011, 05:08 PM
Nice job!

That thing looks sweet - :)

fasteddy
04-29-2011, 06:19 PM
It's a Villiers 2 stroke and 98cc. They also made 4 strokes
These motors are off lawnmowers called Atco's but the Villiers motors were on many other mowers and different machinery such as generators and water pumps.
The British Briggs and Stratton.

They were also the makers of engines for motorcycles like BSA, Francis Barnett, James and DOT.

Great motors in my mind since I had a few English motorcycles when I was young and discovered youthful enthusiasm was no match for thier toughness.

Steve.

fasteddy
04-29-2011, 07:10 PM
Harry,
Looks great. Like the way the mounts sit against the frame.
Does the small sprocket come off the crank easily? Just thinking about what it will do to your leg if it catches your pant leg.

Is the cut in the tire where the piece of wood went in?

Are you are going to need wider a crank for the pedals or is it the camera angle?
Now I can't wait to get ahold of mine.

Steve.

harry76
04-29-2011, 10:49 PM
Thanks for the comments guys. Im happy with the mounts. But i think i payed too much attention on having the engine straight when tacking it, because it isnt quite level, the back is slightly lower then the front. Not much though.

Because the carb will be in the way of the belt i need to either to make a 45degree inlet manifold, or make my hand clutch pull towards me and have the idler wheel pushing downwards on the belt and position it just below the carb.

And Steve taking that sprocket off is my next job. Hopefully not too hard. When i do remove it i can use the cover off the other engine (That cover wasnt shown in pics with that engine) which is a smooth one with a little bump where my sprocket now is.

And yes, thats where the splinter went in. A shame really because now i have an extra tyre and you but them in pairs. Maybe if i got another pair its an excuse for a sidecar project.....

And when im on nightshift in week or so time ill take my bike in and get the fitter to heatup my cranks and try bending them out. They look like they need to go out an inch or two. I can now also work out my sheave bracket sizes.

Ive been thinking maybe i should have went with a centrifugal clutch just so it was easy to ride. But now the pulley is fairly close to where i want the rear sheave i may as well continue as planned i guess.shft.

harry76
04-30-2011, 03:09 AM
I got the sprocket off but the nut holding the flywheel is wider then on the other motor. So if i want to use its flat cover ill need to grind the end off the nut. I cannot seperate the nut from the flywheel.
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3250181.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3250182.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3250183.jpg
I also grabbed an old cooper engine today. Doubt ill get it going but ill use some parts off it. I really like the fuel tank on it. May use it in the future....
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3250175.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3250178.jpg

harry76
04-30-2011, 03:16 AM
Got my shorter bolts. I was planning on making an exhaust but i thought id see if the standard one fit. It did and im liking it. I may just need to put a 90 degree bend where the pipe exits. Ill just put another mock tank on tommorrow, get some fuel and see if its still gonna fire up
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3250186.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3250185.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3250184.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3250188.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3250187.jpg

harry76
04-30-2011, 03:17 AM
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3250191.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3250192.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3250190.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3250189.jpg

fasteddy
04-30-2011, 03:33 AM
I may be wrong but that may be the nut that turns the flywheel off the crank shaft.
I read that the nut holding the fly wheel on the crank turns for a bit then stops and then keeps turning and as it turns it pulls the fly wheel off the crank shaft. A nut inside a nut.

The motors came with a spanner that was made for the job from what I can tell. Let me look at the information I have stored away but that will be later. it's 12:30 am saturday at the monent and I'm off to bed.

I think the other motor is what they refer to as a sloper due to it being sloped on an angle like that.

Steve.

fasteddy
04-30-2011, 04:11 AM
Harry,
Go to the "old lawn mower club' on google.
In their search box put "villiers magneto rebuild"
Go to the top of the page. I think the words you need to get in, are in colour and click on that and when it opens you should be able to pick the heading out that you need to see.

A lot of information there.

I'm off. The cats properly chuffed about the late hour and has her claws in my leg.

Hope this helps.

Steve.

harry76
04-30-2011, 09:29 AM
Ill have to check that out...
I tried on a set of springers i have to see if i preferred it. I quite like them. Although i would need to get the thread extended as they dont fit. So the bars and stem would be about 1 1/2" lower.
I also would probably strengthen them after reading comments on here.
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3250195.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3250194.jpg

fasteddy
04-30-2011, 02:56 PM
Harry,
I think you will be ok with those forks. At least I really hope so since I'm using them as well.
My bike is a Monark which those forks came from. The ones they are talking about are the new ones that are a copy of them. Those are about 60-70 years old so they have survived this long they should keep going.
That said, an inspection of the bike before you ride would be a good idea.

Your bike is coming together nicely. A job well done.

Steve.

harry76
04-30-2011, 06:26 PM
I put on a tank to hold fuel and tried starting it but it wouldnt fire. And UFC 129 PPV is about to start so im finished for the day. i will have to take a look at that through the week
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3250205.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3250204.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3250203.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/P3250202.jpg

fasteddy
05-02-2011, 08:46 PM
Hi Harry,
How goes the build or are you back to work?

Steve.

fasteddy
05-04-2011, 06:04 PM
Harry, you were right about the cost to shipp a motor. The lad shipping it was off a bit in his price.
It isn't 40GBP but more like a 120 GBP or around $190 dollars Canadian. That's for 4-5 day delivery with tracking. More like I thought it would be.

Steve.

harry76
05-05-2011, 01:49 AM
Hey eddy i havent done much on my bike in the past week, been a little busy on other things..... Yeah not surprised about the freight cost as they are pretty heavy. But i guess vintage + quality = heavy.

I measured my wheel and shim up. But im still deciding what to do as i think if i do run a direct drive it may be a little far away from the wheel. The shim will need to be positioned 80mm (3.15") from the centre of the rear rim to the centre of the shim. Should i try and put a centrifugal clutch and jackshaft on it or a jackshaft with a double stepped pulley or leave as is.

Im thinking the shim could be moved inwards around 30mm (1.18") so would i be able to even use a centrifugal clutch with a 30mm gap between pulleys on the jackshaft. As of yet i havent really looked into cent clutches so i dont know whats available. Any help would be great

fasteddy
05-05-2011, 02:09 AM
Hi Harry,
The chap that I bought my motor from said that a Whizzer set up was the answer. He has restored a lot of motor bikes and scooters so I am going with his suggestion.
He did mention that the crankshaft could be cut down to make it fit. I'm going to see about getting the whole Whizzer set up and after the motor is in the bike frame see how it all sets up and do what I have to do get it to work.

I'm going over to the sellers sight and look at the set up he has and see just what it is.
I may get the parts from Quenton who is the resident Whizzer guru on this site and then I know the parts are right and information is close at hand.

I wouldn't think that it is a good idea to have the sheave to far away from the rim. There will be a lot of twisting force on the sheave and the longer the clips holding it to the wheel the weaker it will be.

Steve.

fasteddy
05-05-2011, 04:03 AM
Checked the Whizzer site and it seems that the chap selling the parts in Hong Kong was the person who started remaking Whizzers and redesigned them to what he thought they should be. It was not a sucess.

Quenton says the clutches need to be rebuilt to be useable and he does it. I think that is the route that I'm going to take or I'll look into using a Comet Torque Converter if it can be attached to the Villiers motor.

Steve.

silverbear
05-06-2011, 08:09 AM
Hey Harry,
You're still at it, I see. I'm hoping the little book from msrfan will show up in your mailbox soon so you can look at his drive setup for the Briggs. I'm hoping to use his setup for the Villiers once smart people like you and Fasteddy show me how and have worked out the pulley sizes, etc. I'm patient. I'm on some one else's computer, but will have my new old laptop soon and can follow your progress a little more closely. So get busy... ha!
SB

harry76
05-07-2011, 12:13 AM
Thanks Silverbear, that book turned up in the mail today. Very much appreciated. I cant wait to sit down and read it. Yeah im still at it. Ive stalled a little because the front pulley is a little too far away. I need to decide what to do: A) shorten the crank and rethread it B) jackshaft with a double pulley C) jackshaft with a centrifugal clutch..... Maybe MSR's book may give me ideas.
Once i work that out i can make those brackets, and fit the sheave. Im going to try to start on that tank this week. Hopefully i can get a little closer.
Hope you get a coputer soon , need all the help i can get to get this right.

msrfan
05-07-2011, 11:13 AM
Hey Harry. Great looking pulley. A bit large but that's the beauty of a jackshaft with all the ratios available. You could use a pulley with more offset to hug the engine. It could be countersunk to slip onto the non threaded portion of the crankshaft for plenty of support. Cutting and rethreading the crank would be a lot cleaner. You could also turn the crank to a common size like 3/4" and have a 3/16'' keyway added so you could use off the shelf pulleys in whatever size you want. The added benefit of a shorter crank is that the pedal cranks may clear without modification. Keep up the good work. It's looking very nice.

harry76
05-08-2011, 12:02 AM
Yeah after i got the pulley and then was looking at bikes on here, i figured that the front pulley was a little large. Thanks for the advice MSR. Im still deciding, im liking the idea of shortening the crank (should have done that before i got the front pulley, live and learn). But that would mean id have to disassemble the engine and remove the crank wouldnt it. That may have to wait until funds allow on my next pay....

I did get a bin find at work, i saw they threw away a hot water system so i grabbed some of the pipe (unfortunately too big for fuel lines obviously) and fittings. It had 2 endcaps that will be perfect for fuel caps, ill use 1 on this project. Like i said i wanna try and get started on the tank this week on my days off.

harry76
05-08-2011, 12:03 AM
Oops forgot to post the binfind....
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/Picture058.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/Picture056.jpg

fasteddy
05-08-2011, 12:47 AM
Harry,
It's a learning process and to me, more fun than school.

Silverbear and I will be joining you in a couple of months. A little sooner as far as having a motor in our hands since he will be picking up the motor and transmission that I bought and I have one on the way from England and the carburettor is still over there being rebuilt at a Villiers repair shop but it should be here in 10 days or so.

Thought about the crankshaft being turned and wondered about the motor being bolted to the lath bed and started so the work could be done.

Found a photo of my Gradfathers motorcycle from 1921/22. My Mom doesn't remember the make but it probably was British since they lived there at the time. The drive sheath was very close to the rim in diameter. Maybe 5cm/2in from the top of the inside of the rim to the outside of the sheath. I'll try and post the photo somewhere on the forum tomorrow.

The story was that my Granddad was h*ll on this bike and had it set up very much like a board track racer that he used to get to the train to go to work.

Steve.

harry76
05-08-2011, 06:20 AM
Sounds like vintage motorcycles/boardtrackers run in your veins, you never stood a chance of a life without them.

Cant wait to see your engine and setup. And i look forward to seeing the pic of your grandfathers bike. Very cool!

Well i just bought another Villiers/Atco lawnmower for $50. Its complete and looks to be the same model as the one in this bike. Its a little of a drive so i organised to pick it up next w/end. I dunno how to post an EBay link but the item number is 290561305490 if that helps and you wanna have a look.

Well i think i better lay off buying motors for a little while (well after the honda gx160 im bidding on). And i know either you or Silverbear commented on how the Villiers motors are WAY cheaper in a mower then they are sold seperately. So if you see one of these mowers in the Brisbane, Australia area id be more then happy to pick it up for you and pull the motor and any other parts you want and send them to you (providing the freight from Australia to U.S or Canada was worth it for you) free of charge. Let me know if you ever need this done.

fasteddy
05-08-2011, 04:43 PM
Hi Harry,
Just got an email from the chap in England and he never sent the motor so I dont know how ebay got the idea that it was sent off.

Someone in Brisbane has a motor for $80 that is out of the mower and he has the petrol tank as well I think. There are two mowers for sale but one is in Sydney and one in Adelaide.

Checked the Post Office rates and 20K/44lbs is $173 by air and $218 express which isn't bad.
That may be two motors in a box with luck.

The two mowers were around $20-$30 dollars each. That way you can rob all the bits that you want and the scrap should give you a small return I would think.
Will get the photo on shortly.

Steve.

harry76
05-08-2011, 06:51 PM
Thats a shame about your motor, do u mean he hasnt sent it yet, or he isnt going to send it overseas for some reason?

Yeah it seems you can get these mowers anywhere in the $20 - $100's pricerange. The first one i bought was a complete mower for $20. But i was willing to pay a little more because its the much better looking slant head version i have on this bike.

Well like i said if i can help you out by picking up a mower or similar idea dont hesitate to ask

fasteddy
05-08-2011, 07:00 PM
He will send it but the cost will be a lot more than what he thought. Just easier to send it to the repair chap over there and have him repair it so I know it's up and running. No parts or experts over here that I know of.

Looked at the map and Sydney and Adalaide didn't look close to you. Something will turn up within your area I'm sure. Silverbear and I appeciate the offer. Most kind of you.
I just balance the look and cost against the motors we can buy here.

For me it's an old mans hobby. If I wasn't doing this, I'd be chasing old babes up at the senior center and trying to remember why.

Steve.

harry76
05-08-2011, 07:09 PM
Haha this hobby will keep you young. Women will just age you.... wise words

Yeah unless its in Brisbane or surrounding area the freight on a mower wouldnt be worth it. There is the $80 motor you mentioned that i saw, there is a Viliers/Atco mower at $26 with 8 hours to go but its a 4 stroke version. Something will come up so keep an eye out. I will also keep an eye out and let you know. Another option, like you mentioned previously is maybe looking into farm equipment that they may have had these motors in, i havent really looked down that road

fasteddy
05-08-2011, 07:17 PM
Ever notice that they say pick up only with the mowers? Want pull into their yard and say right mate i'm here, pick it up for me will you.

What do those things weigh? My guess is at least 50K or over a hundred pounds.

Steve.

harry76
05-08-2011, 07:26 PM
Haha, Yeah im guessing its pickup only cos these mowers are incredibly heavy and even just as awkward to try and pick one up. I needed a hand to get the first mower i bought in my wagon.

harry76
05-08-2011, 07:38 PM
You did mention you may be able to get 2 motors in a box. I dont know if your heart is set on only Villiers motors, but we have another fairly common old motor available that i dont think you have available over there. You may have seen it but i also scored a 160cc Victa engine, and i think they are available in a 125cc as well. So when you see some of the old Victa reel/cylinder mowers on EBay these are the motors. I think they are also a very nice looking motor but i cant speak for their reliability or power.... but i will find out
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/bikes/P3130110.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/bikes/P3130111.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/bikes/P3130114.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/bikes/P3110063.jpg

fasteddy
05-08-2011, 10:48 PM
At 166cc I can see a motorcycle style frame build. That would get you where your going in short order.
I'm thinking 98cc would fullfill my need for speed at my age.
I would think if they are 50+ years old they have proven themselves to be reliable.

My problem is that I get around with a cane due to youthfull enthusiasm overcame brilliant thought too many times, or as I prefer to say when people ask what happened "they said that horse can't be ridden and I showed them why".

Would like to see what you build with one though.

Steve.

silverbear
05-11-2011, 08:43 AM
It feels like I've just been listening to two old guys passing wind on a park bench. Move over so I can sit down, too.
I picked up Steve's engine yesterday morning in Hutchinson, Minnesota and it's a sweetheart. The seller, Dave, is a collector and rebuilds old motors, scooters, etc. He was in the middle of a Whizzer engine makeover, transforming it into an 11 horsepower animal and immediately launched into minuscule tolerances, bearings, and such I had no idea of what he was talking about. I tried to look wise and knowing as I pretended to listen. I'm not really into Whizzer land at the time, since I don't have one or expect to. But a Villiars is looming large and brightly on the horizon, looking mighty fine to my eye. This one has the complete kick start, everything, and runs! He said the carb needs cleaning and going over, but it is a simple carb and it did run. He also included a carb in the box he said some of the guys are using on them and which bolts right up... the carb from a China Girl, would you believe. This is the one with it's own fuel shut off. Looks like we have many carburetor options open to us. Anyway, I'm looking forward to being done with unpacking my stuff, organizing and settling in. I'm anxious to get out the Worksman Indian and set the Villiars engine out next to it to see how things shape up with the frame. I won't know much until I remove the PK-80 from the bike and attempt to set the Villiars in it's place, but I'll be very surprised it it will fit in there without frame modification. Fantastic it it will. I'll take pictures as I go along and should probably start my own thread on the 1909 Indian tri-car convertible. That's what I'll call the thread and I can stop high jacking yours, Harry.

When I was looking over ebay offerings in Britain I saw that some Villiars were on water pumps, garden tillers and that sort of thing, so that would be another place to look. Having to do a pick up only on a motor attached to a clunk of mower or tiller is a hassle, but the advantage is that it greatly shrinks the number of people interested in fooling with it and who live close enough to go get it... which usually translates to inexpensive. You also meet interesting people on such treasure hunt adventures and who knows what other interesting stuff they might have out in the shed... like say Grandpa's old motorcycle... "don't know what it is, but I think it says 'Indian' on the gas tank. Kind of rusty and the front wheel is wrecked. Knowing him he got drunk and ran it into a tree. Probably not worth much if you want to take a look..." The stuff an old guy's dreams are made of. I'm at that stage of my life where "a beautiful old girl" is referring to something vintage with a piston and two wheels, and not the bent downward headlight arrangement on Betty Lu at the senior center. At least with a bike you can make her look like new again. Ha!
SB

harry76
05-12-2011, 08:17 PM
WB Silverbear. Look forward to seeing pics and progress of your motor.

I found this build using a Villiers, he doesnt look like hes progressed much further then me but he has made his motor look nice. Board track racer - DIY Go Kart Forum (http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7838)
I dont know yet whether ill leave this ratty yet, or paint it the color of the wheels.

harry76
05-12-2011, 08:25 PM
And i just found this Villiers Flying Merkel build. Its a beauty, i cant seem to find any more on this bike. I think its from NewZealand......
ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/152/flyingmerkelreplicaof1.jpg/sr=1)

silverbear
05-12-2011, 10:21 PM
Thanks for the links, Harry. I signed up for the forum there so that I can follow his build and hopefully learn something. The photo of the Flying Merkel is cool I see that he is using the bent tabs to join his sheave to the rear wheel, just as you are. Looks good, too, I think.
Yes, the guy in the build thread sure prettied up his motor. No such treatment for mine. I'll polish up the flywheel and kick start and paint the rest with black engine enamel and call it good enough. It will be enough trouble just getting it to work properly... pulley, clutch, jackshaft, belt and sheave... lots to attend to. I'm still not too clear on what is needed for that engine shaft to make it workable. One would think there is a ready made pulley that will attach easily, but I guess not. I'll let you smart guys figure it out and then do what you did.
SB

fasteddy
05-12-2011, 10:50 PM
Just joined up too and invited him to join us over here at the forum.

He took his motor apart and zip tied the rod to the counter weights and turned it at 100 rpm on the lath to turn it down to put the pulley or clutch on and then retreaded the end of the shaft.

He has a video of it running. Sounded good.

Steve.

harry76
05-13-2011, 12:27 AM
I really really like that Merkel bike. Im wondering if that is a clutch cable that you can see going downwards behind the seat tube, and operating that chain idler.

I also like his Jackshaft setup, although i wont have room where his is. I would need to put mine behind the seat tube. And while i dont mind my stock exhaust i will probably end up with a similar exhaust as his.

I also bent up some stainless brackets for the rear sheave. But after some staring i think i may make another lot. I made them 40mm wide out of 3mm thick stainless steel from work. I think 30mm wide will look better and sit in the curve of the rim.

harry76
05-13-2011, 07:46 PM
Dunno if you guys go on Ratrodbikes but i have a thread over there and Stocksucks passed on a couple of good links i thought i would share and may help

cjwright@stathan.ndo.co.uk
he is meant to help with any villiers questions

Internal Fire Museum Home (http://www.internalfire.com/index.php?l) ... 556e967aa2
and free manuals available here

Cam Nz
05-14-2011, 03:26 AM
Whew! that was a read, im liking this bike a lot!

Im the guy from the other forum, building the boardtrack bike

The pto thread on the villiers will give you some trouble, its a special pitch!

Things noted also,

Yes making a kill switch will be difficult, however i think come emergency with its powerhouse of one hp you would stall it fairly easy

The nut in the flywheel is indeed non removable. and it took me a while for me to realise how to get the flywheel off!

The piston on these villiers motors is angled backwards, this seems to cover the exhaust port on the intake cycle i take it, so an expansion chamber might not gather any more power, i think also it might not look and sound as "nostalgic" with one on if you catch my drift

Im not sure on my clutch arrangement at the moment, but with the potential for two engines in the near future, it may be up for a re - design, however i do like the look of your belt drive

I would like to thank fasteddy and silverbear for mentioning this build, i really like it.

Cheers, Cam.

harry76
05-14-2011, 03:52 AM
Thanks Cam. I saw your video on Youtube and thought it was very cool.

Whats the PTO thread? Is that the thread on the end of the crank? If so i already got one machined into the flywheel.

You should post your bike on here. Id be excitd to see yours progress along with mine. Australia vs New Zealand in the Ashes. LOL just kidding. Definitely a cool build and look forward to see what you come up with

harry76
05-14-2011, 03:52 AM
I meant into the pulley not flywheel

Cam Nz
05-14-2011, 04:09 AM
Yes the thread on the end of the crank, i work next to a steelmasters outlet (boltmasters for you oz guys) and the chap there could not identify the thread pitch, was neither UNC, UNF, Whitworth or metric, all he could say was it was a 9/16 shaft size, i machined the thread and taper off and tapped the end with a M12x1.75 thread,

However if i do get the second motor, i plan to use car cambelt pulleys (small ones around 50mm dia) and a cambelt drive to the clutch arrangement, this will also allow me to play with timing so i can get it sounding really mint.


I would love to post a build thread on the site, but its a lot of pages of pictures so it will be a job for a sunday afternoon!

Where are you at with the build at the moment mate?

Cheers, Cam.

harry76
05-14-2011, 04:28 AM
Gotta go back to the bearing shop and buy a couple of pulleys and shaft for the jackshaft. Just been a little busy on other things. I need to get some decently priced steel to make a tank which is proving hard. I may just make it out of alloy as that seems easier to get atm but then i need to get it tigged.

I made some brackets to hold the rear sheave to the wheel but im not sure im happy with them.

Oh and im not sure what size pulleys i need for my jackshaft. Im pretty sure my front pulley is a little large but i dont know what sizes i need for my jackshaft. I need to reduce it.

Cam Nz
05-14-2011, 04:38 AM
Im not a ratio expert, but a large 20"? wheel has to have a pretty mad ratio for the small engines, maybe a 150mm dia pulley on the jackshaft and a 50mm pulley on the jackshaft going towards the rear wheel pulley, that rear wheel pulley is pretty large anyway, so maybe just a slight reduction on the jackshaft?

I was going to run chain to the back wheel , but im not sure what im going to run now, ill just have to wait for my second engine to make a decision i guess.

I like the little atco tank im using, going with that theme- maybe if the style suited you, an old fire extinguisher, chopped to your liking?

harry76
05-14-2011, 04:44 AM
I plan to make the tank the same as the cardboard in the early photos. The Atco tank on mine was only for a test start.

And yeah as far as the jackshasft i gues its just trial and error. I plan on building other bikes so the unused pulleys will always be handy. And they arent overly dear. I havent bought the belts yet so i cant speak about their cost. But i was pleasantly surprised at the cost of pulleys.

Cam Nz
05-14-2011, 04:55 AM
Yeah alumunium pulleys surprised me as well, they also polish up a treat!

As long as you keep the reciepts on the belts they should allow you to take them back if you tell them what your upto, my advice would be to gear it low for a start, and see how it performs, and then you can go upwards from there, if you made the jackshaft say 3/4 or something common, you might not have to do so much modification to the pulleys, i held mine on with a single 8mm grubscrew, i dont think it needs much more!

Cheers, Cam.

silverbear
05-14-2011, 07:50 AM
Cam Nz,
Welcome to the forum. I'm glad you've joined us here and look forward to your build thread. I've already learned something about the exhaust I didn't know before... that the expansion chamber may not be of any real benefit on this engine. And I agree that it would not look as good as a straight pipe. May be that I will use something adjustable to control noise when needed (forget the name of those) to keep my neighbors smiling.
Without meaning to highjack your thread, Harry, I wanted to post something about what I'm up to and what will be the subject of a thread I'll start later called "Indian tri-car convertible". The bike in the photos is a Worksman Newsboy which did have a Chinese clone PK-80 2 stroke in it. There's little room in that frame for anything unless the frame is opened up and modified with a drop loop down tube, but I don't weld and if I can cram the Villiars in there as it is, then I will. I started stripping the Indian down yesterday and set the Villiars in place. With a smaller pedal sprocket I can gain another inch or so of engine room and think it will work. The intake manifold will need to be different to get the carburetor level and a different exhaust manifold will need to dogleg around the front frame tube. Other than that, I don't see why it won't work and I like the way the cylinder head inclines following the line of the frame. Since it is a 2 stroke there should be no issues with lubrication to consider. Do any of you see any reason this will not work in this frame? I may not be able to use the kick start... may need to just keep it simple with a rope start like yours, Cam. Thanks and forgive the intrusion into your build thread, Harry. Carry on, mates.
SB

harry76
05-14-2011, 08:56 AM
Your certainly not hijacking my thread. I enjoy having a look. I really like your bike. Very very nice. Im not sure if running the motor on that angle would cause problems. But im thinking the more upright you can get the motor, the better it will look. Have you got a better side view of mockup? Im wondering if a short plug could help with lowering the motor and maybe getting it to stand upright. And you may need to remove the engine mounts. The actual base of the engines with no mounts is quite small and with a short plug (and maybe crimping the upper tube) you may get enough clearance to stand the motor up, if thats what you are looking to do.

silverbear
05-14-2011, 01:49 PM
Your certainly not hijacking my thread. I enjoy having a look. I really like your bike. Very very nice. Im not sure if running the motor on that angle would cause problems. But im thinking the more upright you can get the motor, the better it will look. Have you got a better side view of mockup? Im wondering if a short plug could help with lowering the motor and maybe getting it to stand upright. And you may need to remove the engine mounts. The actual base of the engines with no mounts is quite small and with a short plug (and maybe crimping the upper tube) you may get enough clearance to stand the motor up, if thats what you are looking to do.

Here's two more photos. I have since removed the pedal crank and after finding a 36 tooth pedal sprocket will see how it sits. I know more upright is "normal" but I kind of like it leaning forward like that. I think. But lot's more staring and thinking about it is in order before I actually commit to doing it any certain way. I think the engine mounts it has will work with a couple of ears welded to the frame as you have done with yours. A shorter plug is an option, but no crimping of the upper tube. I can see that having the engine tilted might leave the kick start at an odd angle, so am warming to the idea of a rope or even wrapped leather belt start. Very few people who ever will see this bike will know that it is tilted. Hopefully they will think it is an early motorcycle and was manufactured that way. Since the oiling is in the gas there is no crankcase, so engine position shouldn't matter. Carburetor position would matter, but an adapter at the intake manifold could correct that. If altering the frame would make it lots better then I would consider that, but tilting the engine might be the simplest solution and least costly for me.
SB

fasteddy
05-14-2011, 04:19 PM
Hello Cam NZ,
Glad you stopped over.

I agree with you that these motors are not speed demonds but they are industructable unless you run the petrol with out oil.
I would think that if you geared the bike right you would get 50km/30mph out of them.

These motors may become more popular for our bikes if we have some luck with them. They do have a nice vintage look to them.

NikonPictures034-2-1.jpg picture by speedydick - Photobucket (http://s866.photobucket.com/albums/ab228/speedydick/?action=view&current=NikonPictures034-2-1.jpg)

The photo above is my electric bike that I based on a 1952 Monark balloon tired bike. I built every thing on the sidecar but the wheel and restored the bike.
If you want you can tour through the photos but there is a lot of them so be warned in advance.
The motor is in the sidecar wheel but that wasn't what I wanted so it is all coming apart for a rebuild.

I think Silverbear mentioned it but we will make our bikes so that we can use the tri-car front end or replace that with forks for a motorcycle and have a sidecar if we wish to.

This side car will probably be what I use on my bike and I'll make a smaller, lighter sidecar for the electric bike.

Steve.

harry76
05-14-2011, 04:53 PM
SB now that i have seen more side views i agree that i too like the motor on the angle. I still dont know if there are problems associated with running your motor like that. Hopefully there is enough room for your exhaust.

And i love that sidecar project Eddy. That sidecar is a thing of beauty

harry76
05-14-2011, 11:41 PM
I have a thread over at Motoredbikes although not many people seem to visit that site. But anyway Luke shared a photo of his 1933 French Monet Goynon with a 98cc Villiers. I really like it. I have a couple of ladies frames at home and thought of using them for a build. But i really like this thing. Im thinking i could use the other motor pictured on this thread and stretch a ladies frame and build something very similar. I have too many builds going at once but i enjoy it that way, only working on it when i feel i want to rather then have to.
http://www.motoredbikes.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=31713&d=1305410200

silverbear
05-15-2011, 12:16 AM
That Monet is nice... I see that it is chain drive. I wish there was a way to find out more about that build... especially his drive setup.
I'm curious too, about the power of these engines. Cam NZ describes it as one hsp. That seems low to me for a 98cc engine. It will be interesting to see how these behave as motorbicycle engines... low end torque, power on hills, top end speed. Fasteddy says 30mph or so tops, which is OK for me providing it can also climb hills OK. Some way to do two speeds would sure be nice. Guess I'll worry about one speed first. Ha!
I know what you mean about multiple builds going on at once, Harry. I'm working on getting two four strokes ready for summer riding while stripping down the Indian for the Villiars transplant this summer, eyeballing a cantilever Schwinn for a shift kit and my 34 Elgin due for new paint and a HT engine, possibly with shift kit, both for next winter. Too many bikes and not enough money. Fun though, eh? I agree that shifting from one bike to another keeps it lively and interesting.
Fasteddy, looking over your fabulous Monark and sidecar again... just wonderful. I was thinking that your second Monark would sure look nice with a Villiars to power it.
Harry, what is the name of your thread on the other site? I'll take a look. Is Luke a member there? It would be nice to get some details on his build.
SB

harry76
05-15-2011, 12:30 AM
My builds in the Heritage Lane section and it is named the same as on here. He only just posted on my thread i think. I dont go on there much. But i asked him what speeds he got out of it. Its a really nice bike and could easily be replicated with a ladies frame (i have 2), and i have that same motor, and would be good for a lady friend to ride or even someone who isnt flexible or young enough to get their leg over the bigger mens frames.

harry76
05-15-2011, 12:36 AM
Speaking of too many projects, i just picked up a Honda GX160 and i think im gonna use it in my Indian instead of the 3HP Briggs. I really need to stop buying motors for a while LOL. Im also waiting to hear back when i can pick up the Atco/Villiers cylinder mower i bought off EBay.... Thats all the motors ill buy for a while now.

The Villiers for sale in Brisbane didnt sell for $80, i messaged him and offered him $40 but didnt hear back. He relisted it and last time i looked it was $15.50 with a week to go. Its the same slant head motor as we have. Its pickup only so id be happy to pick it up and forward it on to you if you wanted.

fasteddy
05-15-2011, 01:02 AM
I saw the motor yesterday and noticed that he had put it up again. I'm thinking that it would be nice to have a spare.
I'll go back and look at it and see what it's up to price wise. Think it was around $80.00 to have it shipped to Canada.

Parts are the problem here. They don't exist.

Steve.

harry76
05-15-2011, 03:02 AM
Heres the brackets i folded up but i think they are a little wide (40mm) but would look a lot better at 30mm and still be strong enough and fit the curve of the wheel better.
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/Picture062.jpg

Cam Nz
05-15-2011, 05:32 AM
Silverbear,

I really like the look of your bike with the slanted villiers, just a few more degrees than mine, i agree the carburettor will give you trouble on that angle, however with a 20-30 degree adapter not much more than a couple of inches long should eliminate those troubles, and the longer intake runner could give you a better top end because of the increased air speed/velocity as well,

I was also going to ask you what you are thinking of using as a clutch?

Those brackets look nice, how are you thinking of narrowing them?

I must put my thread up on this site, im itching to work on my bike now that ive seen your brilliant creations guys.

harry76
05-15-2011, 07:49 AM
Yeah post a thread of your bike for sure. Id enjoy reading it and seeing your progression.

If i want thinner brackets ill just make new ones at work. I can get the stainless steel from work and use their guillotine and bender. And i really need to also put a small bend in the part that attaches to the bike rim to sit better and clear the ridge where the spokes attach to the rim.

silverbear
05-15-2011, 08:19 AM
Harry,
Thanks for cluing me in on that Monet. That fellow may give us some good leads on an optional drive arrangement. I'm a member over there, but never found it a very friendly site, so rarely take a look. I've asked that he post more photos and give some details on the drive line. I wonder if his crankshaft was altered and what is fitted on there. Yes, a step through frame makes a lot of good sense, especially for older riders. Very cool that we are sharing information on these great little motors. You in Oz, Fasteddy in British Columbia, Cam NZ in New Zealand and me in remote northern Minnesota, USA. It would be good if Luke in Britain will join us in the pool. Water's great... come on in! Ha! I see you're a young guy. Somehow I imagined you were an old fart like Fasteddy & me. Here, we're all twelve again.
Cam, you asked about what sort of clutch I had in mind. My plan is for you smart young guys to figure it out so I don't have to. Then I'll do what you did. Hurry up! A member of our forum (msrfan) has done a number of 5 hsp Briggs & Stratton builds modeled after the old Whizzer motorbikes. He made up a little booklet showing how which I can send along to you by snail mail if you like. I've sent one to Fasteddy and one to Harry76. It has a lot of detail on his jack shaft, clutch and general drive line. Let me know if you want a copy.
SB

harry76
05-15-2011, 08:50 AM
If Cam wants one, and MSRFAN doesnt mind, id be happy to forward a copy since you were nice enough to send me a copy. Sorta like paying it forward. Ive read it and it is a great little read. Good job MSR!!! Very helpful

msrfan
05-15-2011, 10:26 AM
Thanks guys. No, I don't mind sharing my booklet. The info is pretty basic but never outdated. Those Whizzer engineers in the thirties and all the early motorbike builders have a lot of ingenious mechanisms we can use without inventing anything too complicated. One of the most important things I've learned over the years is not to rush anything, no matter how simple it seems. Think it to death and build and rebuild until it's just right so when you get done, there's very little modification needed. Also fit and finish is a must for me. I grind and polish every part whether it shows or not. I can't stand knowing there's something on my bike that's not totally thought out, smoothed, de-burred, sanded and painted. You guys are doing some great things with your different ideas. Can't wait to see them finished. I' ve got some old motors stashed away that I may mount on something someday using yours as reference. I have a few Techumsehs, Kohlers, Briggs, Maytags, a little military Lauson, a Tanaka, some Hondas, a REO, a Clinton 2 cycle, a Wisconsin, a Cushman and maybe more, I don't know. Then I have some large farm engines, Fairbanks, McCormick, Bean, Economy and Fuller & Johnson. Retirement is going to be busier than my Job, for sure.

fasteddy
05-15-2011, 03:11 PM
Harry, Just a thought but if you narrow the clips and your worried about strength can you add more with out a lot of problems?

Cam, when I saw your bike all I could think of was get the man over to our forum. Your bike is fresh and original and I thought that everyone here would enjoy seeing it.
It's great to see what some other builder is doing with what we don't have and you and Harry have provided it.

Msrfan, I think that everyone notices the fit and finish on your builds. Not only do you always have inovative ways of solving a problem but you have a way of solving the problem that has a factory fit and finish look.

The transmission indicator is a prime example.

Steve.

fasteddy
05-17-2011, 01:03 AM
Got an email from the Villiers repair shop in England and the chap who I bought the motor from wrapped it in two layers of bubble wrap and put it in a box and the shipper managed to smash some of the fins off the motor and may have warped the cylinder.

The repair shop is trying to figure out how bad the damage is.

Steve.

harry76
05-17-2011, 03:18 AM
Thats no good at all!!!! Im sorry to hear that. I hope they can fix it. And the fins are what make this motor so nice imo, so breaking a fin really sux....

Im having my own dramas with mine, i did have it running previously on a stand. But now its installed it doesnt seem to want to start. Im going to pull it back out tomorrow to have a closer look.

And i spent my bike budget this pay on the Honda GX160 i bought. So i may have to wait a week or so to buy the parts for a jackshaft which is what i need for this. Im going to redo my sheave brackets when i go back to work. And i might try and source something for my tank tomorrow as its my last day off tomorrow. Ive been a little slack but im keen to get this project rolling again...

harry76
05-17-2011, 03:23 AM
And MSRFAN, yes we are big fans of your work. Fasteedy hit the nail on the head, your bikes have a very factory look. Everything seems thought out. I meant to ask you previously in this thread when you showed your collection of Maytags, have you ever thought of using one of these engines on a bike, like Buddfabs Maytag bicycle. That thing is awesome. If i had a maytag thats what id be interested in building.
YouTube - Maytag Bicycle (http://youtu.be/R-oLV9DW_n8)

Cam Nz
05-17-2011, 03:47 AM
Timing slips pretty easy, may be your problem, and the points seem to corrode really fast as well.

I would love a copy of the booklet mate, cheers for asking

Unfortunatley two fins are broken on my motor as well, really does suck!

Hope the little motor works for you harry, and thanks guys for the kind words

harry76
05-17-2011, 04:11 AM
Timing slips???? What do you mean? Do you mean the aerator (i think thats what they call it) gap?

I had this motor running just fine only a couple of months ago, and all the points look ok. No corrosion. This motor is in really really good condition.

I did take my flywheel off so im wondering if i put it on wrong or maybe damaged something?

harry76
05-17-2011, 04:13 AM
And Cam if you private message me with your name and address i can photocopy it when i go back to work thursday and post same day. It would be my pleasure as Silverbear was nice enough to send me one, and of course MSRFAN was nice enough to put it to paper.

silverbear
05-17-2011, 04:23 AM
Fasteddy,
That's a disappointment for sure about the motor. You wonder sometimes what people are thinking when they pack something up for shipping. Let's hope your motor man in England can make things right with a donor cylinder. Once we all have our bikes on the road and running like tops, we will have earned our bragging rights. I'm still on the lookout for a kiddie bike to find a wee pedal sprocket of 36 teeth to see how the Villiars sits in the frame. I'll also be stopping by the local small engine guy's shop to see if I can find a donor exhaust manifold of the right size. The Villiars is larger than the ones on either the Happy Time motors or the Hua Sheng. I'd rather not have to have a welder make something up from scratch... best to find an old one and then have a dogleg welded to it. When that is sorted out and I know the engine will fit, then I can see about having mounting ears welded to the frame.
SB

silverbear
05-17-2011, 04:36 AM
Harry,
I was watching this short video of budfab's 1905ish build and noticed the sheaves are done with bent pieces like you're doing. Cool bike, home made engine, nicely done video. The Sea Gull carburetor would have been made by Villiars, yes?
SB

silverbear
05-17-2011, 04:39 AM
YouTube - 1905ish Homemade Motorcycle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-FE42yduNI&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL)
Forgot to paste the link...
SB

Cam Nz
05-17-2011, 06:35 AM
The Sea Gull carburetor would have been made by Villiars,yes?

Yes, some parts off a seagull will fit these motors as well, i have sparkplug caps off a seagull that came with my atco villiers.

I meant on these motors the flywheel has timing marks on it, if you have removed the flywheel then you might have adjusted the timing, but im not sure if you know how to time these or not so i wont go into much detail till i know, i had to re-time mine when i put it back together.

Cheers, Cam.

harry76
05-17-2011, 07:02 AM
I thought that may have been the case. I found tdc and lined up the mark on the flywheel with the mark on the motor. Am i on the right track? Otherwise you may as well fill me in. Otherwise i was gonna go back to the library. When i first bought the motor i got out a small engines manual that covered Villiers.

Cam Nz
05-17-2011, 07:04 AM
Yes they are not too complicated to time, just line it up with tdc, there is a mark on the end of the crankshaft i think that is supposed to line up vertical, and one on the flywheel that lines up with the one on the magneto backing plate behind the flywheel.

Is it getting spark?

Cheers, Cam.

harry76
05-17-2011, 07:34 AM
Oh thats what that mark is on the end of the crank. Ill have to see if it was vertical. But i did line up the marks. It is getting spark. But not a great spark. Ill refit the flywheel tommorrow and make sure the crank mark is vertical. Thanks

If it still doesnt fire i might buy a spark plug, i should buy a new one anyway i guess.

If still no luck i might redo the ignition lead. It doesnt have the strongest looking connections, and i did move around the motor a bit, and Villiers leads are in a position where they could be damaged if not laid carefully. Plus i have a reel of cloth covered wire for an ignition lead

Cam Nz
05-17-2011, 07:43 AM
I had a problem like this, it was the connection with the coil and the lead, has a piece of carbon and a spring mechanism i recall, i took that out and replaced it with a bit of 3mm solder wire,

Since then i have set mine up with a very small screw soldered, and glued to the coil, then i drilled out the lead screw in thing on the magneto backing plate and shoved a hi tension lead down and screwed it into the coil, i still have to find something old looking to cover that wire

But anyway yeah that is where the problem existed, it would get weak spark when i spun it over with the spark plug out, but wouldnt run, hope it helps.

Cheers, Cam.

harry76
05-17-2011, 07:51 AM
I have a roll of cloth covered wire. When i send you the booklet ill see how much it is to send with the wire and if its not much ill send enough for an ignition lead. And no need to repay me. Like Silverbear said to me pay it forward to someone on here if the occasion arises.

Ill have to have a look tomorrow about what you are describing. Electrical is definitely my weakpoint.

harry76
05-17-2011, 06:16 PM
Thanks Cam, I refitted my flywheel, this time with the notch on the crank vertical. And she fired straight up. It's awesome, sounds great, I can't wait to ride it

fasteddy
05-17-2011, 06:31 PM
Cam, if you can find an old iron you can cut the cloth covered cord off, you can use the covering to to cover your ignition wire.
I found one in our local Salvation Army store.

Steve.

Cam Nz
05-18-2011, 07:32 AM
Thats awesome dude, i guess it was timing then! i really like the sound of these engines as well

Yes we have one somewhere, i swear i saw it last week! the same thought came to me a few days ago, but i have not had time to look for it unfortunatley

Wish i could get further on my bike, however work has picked up and i still have to see the guy with the other motor, as i would really like two donks.

Time for a video harry, maybe?

harry76
05-18-2011, 07:41 AM
Plenty of time but no way of filming it.

I had to just give it another stationary run while sitting on it (lol i should probably be working on it rather then imagining riding it, but thats my work ethic) and did notice that it would idle then the rpms would increase (throttle not moved) so i would back the throttle off to idle, then it starts to lose rpms and wants to stall, so increase throttle to idle and then it wants to raise rpms again. And this cycle continues. Idles for about 10 seconds before revs change by themselves.

Any ideas? Carb?

Cam Nz
05-18-2011, 08:00 AM
Maybe the throttle slide is jamming, other than that im not sure, mine idled very low i can tell you that,

Cheers, Cam.

harry76
05-18-2011, 09:34 AM
Yeah i thought whether it could be that but you can have it idling slowly for 10 seconds then all of a sudden the RPMs would climb, so i dont think the throttle is sticking.

It didnt do it (at least i didnt notice it) the last time i was running it. Maybe ill clean my carbie out just in case....

harry76
05-19-2011, 03:02 AM
Silverbear, i came acroos this picture in a magazine today. I forgot the name of the bike but it does have a 98cc Villiers and it is mounted horizontally like you are considering. Thought id share, not a good photo as i took a photo of the picture in the magazine

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/Picture102.jpg

harry76
05-19-2011, 03:02 AM
Camnz..... i posted MSRFAN's book to you today.

Cam Nz
05-19-2011, 03:08 AM
Can't thank you enough, cheers for that mate!

If you need anything machined just ask man ill be more than happy to do it for you!

it could be your float bowl, might have a hole in it, so after a while it starts forcing gas into the carburettor maybe?

harry76
05-19-2011, 03:13 AM
Too easy mate.

Yeah i wonder if that could be it. Ill have to check that out, but that sounds very plausible.

silverbear
05-19-2011, 07:29 AM
Harry,
Thanks for the photo. Yeah, that's at about the same able, isn't it? Nice long pipe going out the back. I wonder what bike that is... might be able to google it if I knew. Can you see if it has the kick start on it?
SB

harry76
05-19-2011, 07:40 AM
I left the magazine with the picture in it at work. Ill have another look tommorrow. It was in a car magazine and it was a letter to the magazine. It was a mate of his that rebuilt it and wanted to know if people had parts. I think it was called an Autobike or Autocycle or something. Like i said ill look tommorrow and let you know. It looked pretty cool. He said it had a built in clutch or something. I was unusually busy at work today so didnt get time to have a good look.

He did say it was slow unfortunately but hopefully good enough for our needs.

harry76
05-19-2011, 05:39 PM
SB, i just grabbed the magazine from work.......

It reads..... "Hi a friend just restored this Autobyk. Im sending you a pic of it in the hope that someone knows where he may find another one or bits. He is after a Villiers Junior or Villiers Junior-Deluxe Autocycle engine. These are two strokes of 98cc with a clutch built in. They are single speed, somewhere between snail and tortoise".

Hope this helps.....

silverbear
05-19-2011, 06:59 PM
Hmmm, somewhere between snail and tortoise, eh? Doesn't sound like we'll be setting any land speed records, does it?
I've seen some turtles scoot right along with the right motivation, so maybe there's hope. They used these same motors on some light motorcycles, so there must be a way. A transmission with more than one speed I would guess. Well then, we'll be slow but very cool with our neat old Villiars motors.
SB

harry76
05-19-2011, 08:04 PM
The slower we go the more people get to admire these wonderful engines....

Ill be happy if it has enough torque to take off without too much pedal assistance. Im hoping it may be as fast, or at least in the ballpark as my 66cc, with a much, MUCH nicer sound!!!

fasteddy
05-19-2011, 08:47 PM
When I bought the motor in England there was one for sale that I looked at. It was was rough as a corn cob but all there and at the time I looked at it it was around 600GBP or just under a Thousand Dollars Canadian. I've seen a few engines for sale and they are not expensive but for those of us on this side of the pond it may not be cheap to buy the motor and send it to be repaired.
I'll be more of an expert on that shortly.

Would be fun to own one though.

Steve.

harry76
05-19-2011, 10:06 PM
How are those motors different to ours? Or are they the same motor?

fasteddy
05-19-2011, 11:05 PM
YouTube - ‪Autobyk Excelsior 98cc‬‏ (http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=11&ved=0CBYQFjAAOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DUhF TyrYnlLs&ei=s9jVTZfwF4bWtQPg-6CxBw&usg=AFQjCNFn95jlO9MgBmKnMK8sSlZ-EcHZcg)

Here is an autobyk that is running so you get an idea of what is in store for us.

Steve.

fasteddy
05-19-2011, 11:18 PM
Excelsior Classic Motorcycles (http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=29&ved=0CFsQFjAIOBQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmotorbike-search-engine.co.uk%2Fclassic_bikes%2Fexcelsior-classic-motorcycles.php&ei=r9vVTZO3OI7ksQO9wKSxBw&usg=AFQjCNFoinLCauOxK56TlxSireOEm93wUQ)

Steve.

fasteddy
05-19-2011, 11:24 PM
Ozrodders.com • View topic - "Autobyk" or Parts Wanted (http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=30&ved=0CGIQFjAJOBQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ozrodders.com%2Fforum%2Fviewt opic.php%3Ff%3D1%26t%3D41211%26p%3D445019&ei=r9vVTZO3OI7ksQO9wKSxBw&usg=AFQjCNGTI9ETj-uYhf_gX6sA-udP2qWy6Q)

I've ordered 4 of these. They will be here next week.
Recognize this one?

Steve.

fasteddy
05-19-2011, 11:28 PM
YouTube - ‪Exelcior Autobyk 98cc 1938‬‏ (http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=32&ved=0CB4QFjABOB4&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dsd_ Ep47A26Q&ei=H9_VTYTUMYXksQPOhqixBw&usg=AFQjCNGwqiZ1ShS2lmdmaY_3WDFLqUAEVQ)

Harry, here's an engine close up.

Steve.

fasteddy
05-19-2011, 11:36 PM
AUTOCYCLE AUTOBYK VINTAGE VILLIERS JDL MOTOR TWO STROKE | eBay (http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=37&ved=0CD8QFjAGOB4&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com.au%2FAUTOCYCLE-AUTOBYK-VINTAGE-VILLIERS-JDL-MOTOR-TWO-STROKE-%2F150565096503&ei=Z-DVTa-5GYKasAPA1u27Bw&usg=AFQjCNHMSFmsuQE50r_vDcryGIihbUOf8Q)

Harry, here's a close, close up and it's in Oz. Just bring your wallet.

Steve.

fasteddy
05-19-2011, 11:48 PM
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=44&ved=0CCwQFjADOCg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fclassiccars.brightwells.com%2Fvie wdetails.php%3Fid%3D1506&ei=eeLVTbmfGYr4sAP0yZm4Bw&usg=AFQjCNF5lJFRhSi6EStpoeUsAlXPy7QR9g

Look at what it sold for and the speed they say it will do.

Steve.

harry76
05-20-2011, 12:11 AM
Thanks Steve, nice work. And that picture of the Autobyk is exactly the same photo and bike as i tried to show Top work.... And while the Autobyk motor is nice our sloped head version is a much nicer, vintage looking motor.....

harry76
05-20-2011, 01:10 AM
Ozrodders.com • View topic - "Autobyk" or Parts Wanted (http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=30&ved=0CGIQFjAJOBQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ozrodders.com%2Fforum%2Fviewt opic.php%3Ff%3D1%26t%3D41211%26p%3D445019&ei=r9vVTZO3OI7ksQO9wKSxBw&usg=AFQjCNGTI9ETj-uYhf_gX6sA-udP2qWy6Q)

I've ordered 4 of these. They will be here next week.
Recognize this one?

Steve.

What have you ordered 4 of?

And its a small world with the internet now that i can show u a blurry pic from the other side of the world and in no time you have found a clear version of it

fasteddy
05-20-2011, 01:24 AM
4 Autobykes like that one.

Steve.

fasteddy
05-20-2011, 01:28 AM
I would have ordered more but the pension cheque doesn't come for a couple of weeks yet.

No, I didn't mind going mad. I kind of enjoyed the trip.

Steve.

harry76
05-20-2011, 03:20 AM
Are you seriously looking at getting one, or 4? Dont know whether you are serious or joking with me........They are a really beautiful looking bike. And sound just as good.

fasteddy
05-20-2011, 03:57 AM
I'm joking with you. As much as I'd like one the cost is probably close to $2,000 landed here in B.C. I had a James that had a 98cc Villiers and I sorta remember it going between 50 and 60 miles an hour. It wasn't a slouch by any means.

Having said that who knows if someone has one that was reasonable I might be in for it but then I need a motorcycle license and at 67 and not good on my feet they probably wouldn't give me one either. Over here if it has a manuel clutch and over 50cc it's a motorcycle. I have no idea why.

Steve.

harry76
05-20-2011, 04:36 AM
We have those same rules here unfortunately. And not only that all internal combustion engined bicycles are banned also.

And im building a number of bikes that i may possibly be not able to ride. Ill try until i get caught and the fines become too much.

So ive been thinking about an idea for a future build so i can ride it legally (sort of.... not really). You and Silverbear suggesting me to use moped wheels got me thinking.... i may buy an old cheap moped and register it (if it isnt already). And then cut the headtube with VIN on it and use other parts (hubs, etc) and build a MB around that with a bigger motor. The engine/chassis numbers wouldnt match, but if i made a vintage looking bike and behaved myself i think i would get away with it. I would have to run headlights and the rest obviously.

And even if a policeman realised my bike was illegal, and ordered it off the road i would be no worse off then just building a MB. Just the cost of rego and the cost of the moped, which i see many cheap ones quite often.

I do have a few motors i have to choose from to do it.....
Honda GX160 (was going to put it in my Indian build)
2 more Villiers 98cc
Victa 160cc

Cam Nz
05-21-2011, 08:13 PM
and then cut the headtube with VIN on it and use other parts (hubs, etc)

I would copy the engine number, and stamp it into the block, over here they don't look twice when you go to register it, and no such thing as a warrant.

I suggest using suzuki FA50 or honda cub wheels, as they are spoked and look cool, also they are a bit tougher than bike wheels,

As for riding it illegally, well they can only fine you so much, and you have to make up your mind whether you think its worth it or not, however over here i would just ride it as a bicycle, with a helmet and behave responsibly.

Hope that helps dude,

Cheers, Cam.

harry76
05-21-2011, 08:26 PM
Yeah stamping the new block probably isnt a bad idea.

What diametre are the FA50 or cub rims? If i did do this project i have 2 Velocity double walled downhill rims that would be more then strong enough, and just use the hubs. Unless they are 26". IMO the bigger diametre the wheels the better the bike looks....

Hows things on your project? Are you going to start a thread? If not feel free to post a few pics on this thread,there would be many people on here keen to see it. Its a very original build.....

Cam Nz
05-21-2011, 08:38 PM
Yeah if you fill and paint over the original numbers they really don't look twice.

There is two FA50 wheels at work that belong to my mates FA50, ill check tomoro but i think they are around 20" wheels, with drum brake centres, im not sure about cub rims but i know they are bigger.

Well ill go grab some food, and start a thread, i also wouldnt mind going and seeing the chap about the second motor later on in the day.

Cheers, Cam.

harry76
05-21-2011, 08:43 PM
Sounds good bro, im keen to see your thread.

Im looking at getting another slant head 98cc Villiers. I won an auction on EBay last week (maybe longer ago) for a Villiers/Atco cylinder mower for $50 but he isnt returning my messages for pickup. I did message him before end of auction and arranged a late pickup as i was working that weekend, he said it was fine as it wasnt in his way. Well hopefully he is just busy.... im keen to get that motor.

Anyway im looking forward to your thread. And look forward to sharing ideas....

silverbear
05-21-2011, 09:22 PM
Regarding the moped hubs... if you find ones with 36 spokes, the same as a cruiser wheel, then you can just use the hubs in the bigger wheel and lace in thicker spokes. That's what I did for my Indian/Villiars build later this summer. 1952 Schwinn rims in great shape and hubs from an AMF moped with 11 gauge spokes. All that's left is truing them up.
That autobyke will do 55mph? It must have the two speed transmission. I'll be happy with 30 or 35mph and the ability to climb a hill. Sure would be nice to find one of those transmissions reasonably priced.
Looking forward to your thread Cam.
Fasteddy. I am so disappointed. I was thinking perhaps you bought four of those autobykes, one for each of us. I'm sure they would make nice gifts in case you win the lottery.
SB
SB

harry76
05-21-2011, 09:41 PM
Yeah thats the plan silverbear... lace my 2 Velocity rims to the 36 hole hubs

And yes id love an Autobyk as a gift Fasteddy....

fasteddy
05-21-2011, 10:35 PM
Fellas, I promise you that if I do hit the lottery not only will we be ridding Autobyks but it will be on our own private South Sea Island which may not be a big thing to those of you in the Southern Hemisphere but for SB and I that would be the ultimate happiness.

Steve.

Cam Nz
05-21-2011, 10:47 PM
Phew, that took a fair amount of time to make that thread!

Its up though,
http://motorbicycling.com/f36/villiers-boardtrack-racer-30023.html#post286134

Is it difficult to lace different rims to different hubs?

Cheers, Cam.

harry76
05-21-2011, 11:09 PM
Ive laced all my wheels on all my MB and its pretty easy. I had no idea how to do it.... but the shop wanted $100 a wheel so i youtubed it....... obviously as long as the hubs and rims have the same number holes. I think even if the spoke thicknesses are different tou can drill out your hub or rim to suit.....

silverbear
05-21-2011, 11:12 PM
I laced my first set of wheels this winter and it is something I wanted to learn how to do for a long time now. I googled the subject and found some nice U tube tutorials on how to go about it. I used what is called a four cross pattern with 12 gauge spokes 10 5/8 inches long. I had drill out the bike rim spoke holes for the larger spokes and nipples. They are together, the rims are painted and will go on my Indian later this summer. I have yet to true the wheels, but will as soon as I come up with something to use as a truing stand for the wider moped hubs. I will also need to spread the axle drop outs on the Worksman to accommodate the wider hub. But those big old beefy drum brakes look so good and retro. contributing to that "motorcycle" look. After a little study you'll do them up fine. Just need to find hubs with the same number of spokes as the rims.
SB

harry76
05-21-2011, 11:26 PM
Im at work ATM and just finished cutting out my fuel tank. Tommorrow ill sort out the fuelcap, mounts and petcock. Then i need to take it to my brothers and try to weld it.... i really really need to buy myself a welder

harry76
05-22-2011, 02:39 AM
Heres the tank i knocked up. I didnt put a fold on the sides as the metal is a little thick, but the steel was free so i used it.

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/Picture107.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/Picture104.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/Picture105.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/Picture106.jpg

And i plan to use one of these copper caps that i grabbed from a hotwater system they threw out at work.

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/Picture058-1.jpg

Cam Nz
05-23-2011, 07:49 AM
Man, that tank looks mint!! keep up the good work mate!

Cheers, Cam.

silverbear
05-23-2011, 08:15 AM
Nice, Harry!
SB

fasteddy
05-23-2011, 02:23 PM
Like the tank a lot. What kind of welder would you get?

Do you work on 220V in Oz and N.Z. as your regular electric power? Here in the U.S. and Canada it's all 110V and anything that requires a lot of power like compressers and heavy welders are run on 220V.
Most is single phase and commercial electric will go to 3 phase to save money.

Steve.

Cam Nz
05-24-2011, 06:16 AM
230V, or 3 phase 480? volt

I like my little morgan welder, but ive had esabs before that and i like them as well!

Cheers, Cam.

harry76
05-24-2011, 07:22 PM
Unfortunately my lack of funds has stalled my project a little. Ive changed my mind a little and think id like a centrifugal clutch on a jackshaft so maybe next pay. And i cant fit my sheave until i know exactly where it needs to go.

I was going to remake my rear sheave brackets to make them not as wide, but im thinking ill leave them as it may prevent them twisting. I first made them an "s" shape but they didnt sit on the rim properly......

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/Picture123.jpg

So i put a small bend in them to sit properly on the rim...

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/Picture116.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/Picture115.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/Picture121.jpg

harry76
05-24-2011, 07:31 PM
Went to my brothers to use his welder to do my tank only to find out it isnt working :-) I may just get a guy at work to tig it.

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/Picture117.jpg

Got my Villiers sticker for the tank if i decide to eventually paint it and make it pretty. I havent decided yet.....

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/Picture119.jpg

And i have a question about my springer forks as ive never owned a pair. If i use them i would need to get more thread on my forks as my steerer tube is too small. Im guessing id need to make a new flatter top plate (where the springs bolt to)?

Or when i get the extra thread on the forks and tighten it down will it push the front legs of the forks downwards? Because currently the front legs are very high off the front wheel (hope this makes sense because its hard to describe).....

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/Picture122.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/Picture120.jpg

harry76
05-24-2011, 07:36 PM
I mentioned earlier that my motors revs were changing when idling..... well i ran it again yesterday (no real reason except it sounds good and i like hearin it lol), and it ran like a charm. The revs stayed constant so im not sure what was going on.

I go get my Villiers mower tommorrow, ill post some pics

fasteddy
05-25-2011, 12:03 AM
Harry, I think your forks are from a womens bike. They had a longer steerer tube and the spacers under the springs. The springs on a mans bike sit right on the forks without the spacers.
The top piece holding the springs on the steerer tube may have to be replaced since I think it steps down more than a mans bike. The rods the springs are on will need to be shortened also The top piece is available from a company called Crossbow in California.
I'll get the address for you shorty.

Steve.

harry76
05-25-2011, 12:16 AM
Thanks Steve....

I cut my seatpost to move the seat further back. I think it looks better. I also stripped the forks back, i couldnt stand the blue any longer....

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/Picture124.jpg

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/Picture125.jpg

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/Picture128.jpg

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/Picture127.jpg

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/Picture126.jpg

harry76
05-25-2011, 12:25 AM
Im not sure i like the seatpost say i may just mount the seat to the frame to get it lower and further back

fasteddy
05-25-2011, 12:41 AM
crossbowusa items - Get great deals on items on eBay Stores! (http://stores.ebay.com/crossbowusa)

This is all I can find.

Steve.

harry76
05-25-2011, 01:45 AM
Thanks Steve but I may just cut a spacer for under the top fork plate and see how that looks

harry76
05-25-2011, 02:44 AM
Made a fuel filler neck at work from some pipe i found. I just need to cut it to length. The cap is copper and i will polish it up. I just need to find some steel for the petcock and tank mounts......

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/Picture130.jpg

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa345/harry761/Picture129.jpg