Your kit reliability experience needed!!! chinese or name brand motors

reynolcj · May 28, 2008

I called a couple of folks that supplied the chinese 48 and 70 cc motors. I heard claims that the motors would last any where from 1000-5000 miles. I drive alot and I was hoping for something that would get at least 10 if not 20 thousand miles before needing to be completly replaced. My thought is that i need to go honda, tanaka, robin, subaru...some well known name to get a good, long lasting motor?

I have been searching through the forums for the past few hours and I can't find much info as to what you guys are driving and what kinda motors/kits you are using. Specifically, what kind of reliability is out there. I mean, how long will the chinese 2 strokes last in real world scenarios? Am I better off purchasing a new motor every time it blows or should i spend 600 bucks for a tanaka or robin kit from Golden eagle? Its a bit rich for my blood, but if it lasts, then great!
Please comment only if you have 1st or second hand experience! Hopefully this will help more folks than just me!

Jemma Hawtrey · May 28, 2008

Commercial engines are pretty much bombproof but they are expensive in comparison... but then so was a Rolls Royce 20/25 in comparison to a Model T Ford

If you can afford it and want fit and forget reliability go for the commercial engine kits such as stantons/gebe/dax titan/XC50 frame mounts. For power and tunability - the 2 strokes every time - GEBE 2-strokes with modifications have been known to run over 50mph. For workhorse and no fuel mixing go for a four banger but be aware for the same power you need more ccs and therefore more weight..

hope that helped

Jemma xx

deacon · May 28, 2008

I see the 2 stroke vs 4 stroke fight on the horizon... I'm packing my bag and leaving town on this one.

reynolcj · May 28, 2008

After a little research, sounds like Staton may be the way to go...with a Robin or Honda motor. Still not sure whether to go 2 stroke or 4...lol considering deacons above comment, not sure i want to go there : )

But for kicks and giggles, which one would be better for long hauls 3-4 times a week? By long haul I mean at least 24, maybe 60 miles round trip. Does anyone else log 200-300 miles a week on there bike? I may be a guinea pig on this one...

deacon · May 28, 2008

If I was going to do that kind of mileage I would go with a suspension system on the bike for sure. A plain bike would make you about an inch shorter at the end of the month i think.

spad4me · May 28, 2008

I log about 100 ++ miles a week of fooling aroung on the nastiest twisty.harebrained muletrails ever to be called a city street.
Imagine multiple loops and five way stops instread of a straight line between two points. Pick your path.
Whatta blast !!
Watch out fot taxis pulling U turns because they are lost. LOL

The Chinese kits are NOT reliable.
You will need to become an excellent mechanic.
The parts are made of inferior metal.
Then there is the bicycle.

I love mine.

COST
The kit plus shipping $250.00
The bicycle Wall- e-world $39.00
Tires plus no more flats $110.00
Useable seat Tractor style $20.00

First the kit parts will fail chain, tensioner, carb ,etc.
Then the bicycle parts will fail.

Finally you will have a device that will carry you to your destination.
Covering your legs with burned 2 stroke oil. gas fumes, road film,
bugs, water, and everything else on the roadway.

I get about 160 +++mpg.

I recomend a Staton kit with a honda 50 on a full suspension steel frame mountain bike with a nu vinci hub.
Cost $1500.00 for the kit alone.
Then add the tires, tubes, seat, lights, and any thing else you will need.
Good luck!

KipBurbank · May 28, 2008

I think that the rear engine units, like the Eagle, are probably the most reliable. My thing with those is that they are ugly. The Chineese motors are cool looking like little motorcycle engines and after they are broken in, they haul. If I needed a bike to ride to work everyday, I would get an eagle. If I wanted to (and I do) have a cool looking bike with a cool gas tank and exhaust pipe etc., I would (and I do) get the China motor. The China motors are just fun stuff, they require a bit of mechanical tinkering, but that's part of the fun for a guy/girl that likes touching and playing with mechanical stuff. The fact that they run and speed off is just the extra fun part.

cityevader · May 29, 2008

I've got a Chinese "80cc" 67.5cc 2stroke on my mountain bike, with the plan to do 40 mile trips every day, for our 6 month dry season to save on gas....that was a couple weeks ago that the install was "finished".
I've had to teardown and grind away at the clutch handle internals (which turned out to be a trigger shifter for front deralleurs) just to make it work. The chain needs much work to get the links to "relax" without binding when flexed. Countless issues and adjustments and roadtesting and readjustment trying to resolve fuel mixture delivery. Chainguard broke off mid ride. Rear hub modifications to get sprocket clearance, Fuel hose pop off/tank drain miles from home. Grinding bits off bike for engine clearance, still trying to get it to run right at light load full throttle, and the day before my maiden voyage during normal work commute, the rear engine mount fell off, sheering off studs, loosening front mount...much drilling and tapping engine for new studs...american thread 1/4x20 this time since metric threaded rod is apparently unavailable in the united states

. Lets see, what else...oh yeah, you can't just get a kit and read the instuctions and bolt it up. You literally throw away the "owners manual and installation guide" as they have absolutely nothing to offer. (Imagine a Mexican who barely has a first grade knowledge of English trying to translate U.S. tax laws from English into English for an adult English person.) Empty the different bags of parts and pieces onto the floor and determine what looks best mounted...there...and you've done better than the instructions already.

Anyhoo...I hoping tomorrow for the first real voyage, and if goes well enough, it's 200 miles a week for me for 6 months... I'll keep a running journal.

jg767 · May 30, 2008

I log in 2-3 hundred miles per week on a gebe robin subaru35cc motor pulls good, but my belts and gears suffer. Im going with a dax titon 50cc chain drive because the bebe isnt rugged enough for my 250lb. weight, a lot of stop and go around boston.
the tanaka 40cc works nice but I tear up belts. I hope achain drive will hold up better,

paul · May 30, 2008

i am also going with the dax titan bicycle motor. should be here in the next few weeks and i will be using it to comute to work and riding around the island. we have lots of steep mountains and will give a full report on everything. the people that i know say the vibration with it is next to nil with the motor which i think alot of the problems we have with the 2 strokes is from all the vibration. i will be putting it on a full suspension schwinn home grown carbon fiber moutain bike with top of the line gearing, shocks and everything else. the bicycle was made for down hill racing so i am sure it will hold up under the presure. i have the sprocket mounted on the disk brake mount. just have to see how this old man holds up

longtooth67 · May 31, 2008

I was told that the tanaka 40cc with the golden eagle belt kit was the best chiose for daily commuting. The dealer (a sign guy turned motor biker) has been riding a recumbent with this set-up for 2-3 years with limeted problems. but we also live in NM and the roads are flat for the most part. so is this a good kit or not.

cityevader · May 31, 2008

cityevader said:
I've got a Chinese "80cc" 67.5cc 2stroke on my mountain bike, with the plan to do 40 mile trips every day, for our 6 month dry season to save on gas....that was a couple weeks ago that the install was "finished".
I've had to teardown and grind away at the clutch handle internals (which turned out to be a trigger shifter for front deralleurs) just to make it work. The chain needs much work to get the links to "relax" without binding when flexed. Countless issues and adjustments and roadtesting and readjustment trying to resolve fuel mixture delivery. Chainguard broke off mid ride. Rear hub modifications to get sprocket clearance, Fuel hose pop off/tank drain miles from home. Grinding bits off bike for engine clearance, still trying to get it to run right at light load full throttle, and the day before my maiden voyage during normal work commute, the rear engine mount fell off, sheering off studs, loosening front mount...much drilling and tapping engine for new studs...american thread 1/4x20 this time since metric threaded rod is apparently unavailable in the united states . Lets see, what else...oh yeah, you can't just get a kit and read the instuctions and bolt it up. You literally throw away the "owners manual and installation guide" as they have absolutely nothing to offer. (Imagine a Mexican who barely has a first grade knowledge of English trying to translate U.S. tax laws from English into English for an adult English person.) Empty the different bags of parts and pieces onto the floor and determine what looks best mounted...there...and you've done better than the instructions already.

Anyhoo...I hoping tomorrow for the first real voyage, and if goes well enough, it's 200 miles a week for me for 6 months... I'll keep a running journal.

So I got the motor re-modified and bolted back up. Still running funky. Shot some brake clean around the carb-to-inlet joint, and immediately died. Apparantly silicone didn't seal as planned. Re-sealed and let harden overnight..no longer dies with brake clean spray, but still surges under part load. Put clear fuel line back on to watch, and noticed fuel empties from line under load. Removed tank and petcock, disassembled petcock, not a speck of contamination. Still, I rattled a bunch of bolts and nuts in the empty tank and flushed it out since it was already removed. Fuel now stays in the line and doesn't "dry up" but still surges (feels like running out of gas, but then comes back to life). Oh yeah, and in between each and every change I make, I move the needle valve clip into each position to cover all bases from lean to rich (measured needle at .064" at tip and .075" at midpoint).... no improvements. Swapped original plug and wire with NGK and car plug wire. No change. Retorgued head bolts... surprisingly way loose. Not all good now, but revs a little better in the downhill/high RPM/or minimal load range with less surging. But still sputters for a couple seconds every 20 seconds or so like I forgot to open the fuel petcock and it's nearly out of gas, but then corrects itself. Even tried feathering the choke and fuel petcock to enrichen/lean out the mixture, but haven't gotten conclusive results. Very frustrating. Next plan is to reduce the oil from approx 22:1 to approx 30:1, as well as reduce octane from 91 to 87, which should increase "volatility".

Reliable? HA!
Commuter vehicle as originally planned? HA!
Disappointed? HA!
Still trying? YEAH!

KipBurbank · May 31, 2008

I am not an expert, but I would add more gas, less oil, clean the plug, drain the carb bowl. The coil can only produce so much spark to keep the plug lit up and the oil is not combustable, it's a lubricant. I just gave my friend a new 80cc bike and he started with a really rich oil mix and I was reluctant to speak my piece about that. On his own he up-ed the gas and she's running nice now. Just don't whamp on it too much and take it easy and the engine will break in fine. These are not highly refined engine, but they will work well if you break them in. That's my experience. I have a 4 year old 49 cc, that was all that was available, it's got lots of miles on it. I think I could run it at full tilt for an hour and it wouldn't show any sign of trouble. Ironically, I am changing out the motor this weekend for a 80 (or 67.5 or whatever they actually are) and I am going to either give away the 49 or sell it. I don't know anyone who would use it other than you guys. I may give it a good cleaning and put it on a sale bike, I don't know yet.

My thoughts are if it's cutting out, but running, change the gas, the octane won't matter but the oil mix will. Also, the plug...keep the original plug, mine has lasted a long time and I think it's going to be hard to match the heat rating of one of those Chinese plugs.

Bikeguy Joe · May 31, 2008

Sounds like your float is not adjusted right. If the float is riding too low, you will have the symptoms you describe.

Egor · May 31, 2008

longtooth67 said:
I was told that the tanaka 40cc with the golden eagle belt kit was the best chiose for daily commuting. The dealer (a sign guy turned motor biker) has been riding a recumbent with this set-up for 2-3 years with limeted problems. but we also live in NM and the roads are flat for the most part. so is this a good kit or not.

I agree the Happy time engines are for fun, I like them because they need me. The commercial engines, the names you have heard of will run without any fuss or muss. I think the new Dax chain drive would work well for every day. I think if I was going to use a bike every day I would still use the Tomos they have been around forever, and run that long. Have fun Dave

PS: DO you think if some one came to this forum with a Tomos, they would have a place here? A motorized bicycle in Ca is a MoPed.
And then there is this, it is a 4 stroke! 2007 Lazer Sport 4 Stroke Pedal Moped by BARON

spad4me · May 31, 2008

Egor

PS: DO you think if some one came to this forum with a Tomos said:
I would like to see some and compare.
I race er pace the local versions of very old mo-peds. They must be very old.
About the same speed.

jg767 · May 31, 2008

I have used the tanaka on my gebe setup. It's a smooth, strong motor but I prefer the robin subaru because it's much quieter and Idon't have to mes with mixing oil and gas. If you ride on mostly level ground and your not too heavy either motor will run reliably with the belt drive. It would be super with ahighwy gear, e.g. 13 tooth for the r/s, or 14 tooth for the tanaka. Good luck!

t drive

motorman · Jun 1, 2008

One of my main problems was compression. I received this tip from another member yesterday. Go to your local auto parts store and pick up a spray can of the copper gasket spray. Pull the head off along with the head gasket. Spray both sides of the head gasket and wait a few minutes, spray again. Let dry until the copper gasket spray is tacky. Carefully reinstall the gasket and the head. I doubled up on washers before torquing the head back down. My theory on this is the factory head bolts only thread so far (because they are capped) and will only give your head only so much tightness. Let sit overnight. This may help in your case.

cityevader · Jun 1, 2008

The best thing so far to keep fairly normal and consistent operation is VERY regularly ensuring head bolts tight. I just got a gallon of 30:1 mixed up, maybe test drive today. If still goofy, i'll raise the float.

But man, oh man...if I weren't a car mechanic able to tackle so many issues, this bike project would be gathering moss out in my yard!

spad4me · Jun 1, 2008

motorman said:
One of my main problems was compression. I received this tip from another member yesterday. Go to your local auto parts store and pick up a spray can of the copper gasket spray. Pull the head off along with the head gasket. Spray both sides of the head gasket and wait a few minutes, spray again. Let dry until the copper gasket spray is tacky. Carefully reinstall the gasket and the head. I doubled up on washers before torquing the head back down. My theory on this is the factory head bolts only thread so far (because they are capped) and will only give your head only so much tightness. Let sit overnight. This may help in your case.

I like your double washer idea.
I side stepped the issue on mine by replacing the capped bolts with (tri crammed? they have three deformed areas in each bolt) locking bolts.
Ace hardware LOL

Your kit reliability experience needed!!! chinese or name brand motors

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